MintberryCrunchPlease implement a switch that allows users to revert to versions prior to 3.4.1 in terms of latency. We electronic drummers do not want any additional latency when using the plug-in, even if it is only a little more than a third of a millisecond! (which is the case with v.3.4.1 and which is also completely unnecessary for our purposes!)
Especially those whose latency chain has already reached the acceptable maximum of 10 ms (because of not using the fastests modules and audio interfaces) will not be happy about a further extension of the latency chain.
And there are so many benefits from using the plug-in in a DAW, so please don’t answer “use the standalone”.
drumjack52You could always back date to a previous version. Otherwise you would need to have separate installs of SD3 of each version you want to use and I don’t know if whatever operating system you’re using would allow that. A switch like you say could not be implemented in SD3. And even if it did they would have to have different names and then there’s the whole problem that your daw might not see the changed names. Keep in mind that it’s not just the name you see when chossing an insert but also what’s in the metadata.
A third of a millisecond? I seriously doubt that could even be heard. And where do you get this 10 ms number from? But really you answered your own question with the remedy of getting better audio interfaces. And as far as a faster drum brain – keep in mind that MIDI has it’s own latency and that’s something you can’t do much (if anything) about. Are you loading the whole kit into ram? Doing that will help keep down any perceived slowdowns.
Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram
MintberryCrunch“A switch like you say could not be implemented in SD3.”
Is this a statement from an official Toontrack SD3 developer?
drumjack52“A switch like you say could not be implemented in SD3.”
Is this a statement from an official Toontrack SD3 developer?
No but it comes from someone who’s done a fair bit of coding. It would have to be a shell program that then selects which version to run and this would not be built into SD3 itself. And that would requires having 2 different versions of SD3 on your computer. Why not just take the easy way and backdate if you’re having supposed latency issues with a system that begs for upgraded hardware? You want premium performance – you have to pay for it.
You completely ignored the rest of my post.
It’s a shame your forum is on Fakebook – not everyone does that.
Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram
MintberryCrunchWhy not just take the easy way and backdate
Because of not being compatible with the latest SDX (“Real to Reel” and all future libs).
drumjack52Why not just take the easy way and backdate
Because of not being compatible with the latest SDX (“Real to Reel” and all future libs).
Looks like you’re stuck with what things are. Get a better audio interface. Or split your system drive into 2 partitions with individual SD3 variations and duplicate all your plugins. There have been far more serious things that have been put up as suggestions that have been sitting in the bit-bin at Toontrack that are still there for years. IOW – what you want ain’t happening soon.
Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram
MintberryCrunchThis isn’t about my equipment; I’m speaking generally for VST e-drummers here. I would like to read a response post from an official representative.
JohnHi,
any “official” word on a future update will most likely not happen, Toontrack never does that but you are of course welcome to request a feature.
To clarify, this bug fix that added 16 samples @ 44,1kHz is adding ≈0,3 milliseconds. The time it takes for the sound of your acoustic snare to reach your ear is about 2,1 milliseconds.
You can always jump up in sample rate as a quick fix to minimise the latency.
BR,
John
John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor
1
Thanked by: drumjack52
Petter AdstenThanks for the feedback. Just to make sure, you are suggesting that we should provide a way for users to actively disable the 16 samples latency that was introduced in 3.4.1?
I can make sure that the development team receives the request. Is there anything else you would like to add to this, before I forward your message?
Petter Adsten - Toontrack
Support & Betatesting
MintberryCrunchJust to make sure, you are suggesting that we should provide a way for users to actively disable the 16 samples latency that was introduced in 3.4.1?
Yes, please!
Based on the reactions of SD3 e-drummers on Facebook, it is clear that this new additional latency is not well received.
The total latency of SD3 e-drums should not be extended (not even by 0.3+ms), as the latency chain can already be quite extensive (caused by trigger-to-midi devices and audio interfaces, as well as SD3 audio effects and other third-party DSP that introduce a bit of latency).
1
Thanked by: Petter AdstenMintberryCrunchYou can always jump up in sample rate as a quick fix to minimise the latency.
There is additional latency reported (from resampling) when set to 48 kHz instead of the native 44.1 – so the benefit is effectively negated again.
And something like 88200 or 96000 Hz will significantly increase the real-time CPU load – so this won’t be optimal.
1
Thanked by: Petter AdstenPetter Adsten– Edited to remove incorrect information –
Petter Adsten - Toontrack
Support & Betatesting
1
Thanked by: MintberryCrunch
WolfgangThanks for the feedback. Just to make sure, you are suggesting that we should provide a way for users to actively disable the 16 samples latency that was introduced in 3.4.1?
- At sample rate 44.1 kHz, the plug-ins (not in the standalone) now always have and report 16 samples added latency, to prevent potential latency changes during playback. Related to this, in some hosts (for example Ableton Live), looping would in version 3.4.0 cause an audio glitch.
I can make sure that the development team receives the request. Is there anything else you would like to add to this, before I forward your message?
Thanks for your Reply, Petter! Maybe someone could provide some more information on this issue? What were the “potential latency changes during playback” and when did they occur? As someone who never had any problems playing SD3 with 16 samples live an extra 16 samples is not much appreciated. A switch like “turn safety buffers on/off” would indeed be very helpful.
MintberryCrunchAnd the new 16 samples latency added in 44.1kHz is not being applied when 48kHz sample rate is used.
–> Good to know, thanks.
Maybe someone could provide some more information on this issue? What were the “potential latency changes during playback” and when did they occur?
–> There: LINK
A switch like “turn safety buffers on/off” would indeed be very helpful.
–> Yep!
WolfgangSo does this only affect Ableton Live? Then imo a switch would really be the best solution.
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Thanked by: MintberryCrunchPetter Adsten–> Good to know, thanks.
Sorry, you were right, after some discussion and further investigation it isn’t as easy as I commented before that the resampler just adds 16 samples of latency. Using other sample rates than 44.1kHz will not improve latency.
So does this only affect Ableton Live?
Not necessarily, no. We had some reports come in to support indicating that there were issues in other hosts as well. But we weren’t able to reproduce the issues.
Petter Adsten - Toontrack
Support & Betatesting
1
Thanked by: MintberryCrunchNo products in the cart.
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