Johnbee1I’m sure many here have heard of the recent ruling regarding Marvin Gaye’s “Got To Give It Up” and Robin Thicke’s “Blurred Lines”.
I know that any loop we use in either ez drummer or ez keys is royalty free for us to use in any original song as we wish. But how would it extend to other fellow users of the product? Let’s say I use a drum pattern from EZD and 50 other users use the same pattern. Which of the 51 of us can sue the other 50 for copyright infringement? I guess the answer would be the first one who uses it. Or is a drum pattern considered arrangement and not subject to copyright? How about keyboard patterns from EZ Keys? The reason this is a cause for concern is the court ruling in the songs mentioned above charged that Thicke violates Gaye’s copyright in terms of STYLE. Is style criteria for an infringement suit now? I thought is was melody and lyrics.
John Bowen Reading PA
I’m sure many here have heard of the recent ruling regarding Marvin Gaye’s “Got To Give It Up” and Robin Thicke’s “Blurred Lines”.
I know that any loop we use in either ez drummer or ez keys is royalty free for us to use in any original song as we wish. But how would it extend to other fellow users of the product? Let’s say I use a drum pattern from EZD and 50 other users use the same pattern. Which of the 51 of us can sue the other 50 for copyright infringement? I guess the answer would be the first one who uses it. Or is a drum pattern considered arrangement and not subject to copyright? How about keyboard patterns from EZ Keys? The reason this is a cause for concern is the court ruling in the songs mentioned above charged that Thicke violates Gaye’s copyright in terms of STYLE. Is style criteria for an infringement suit now? I thought is was melody and lyrics.
John Bowen Reading PA
Johnbee1I really wonder how much and what kind of “Forensic analysis” was used in determining that either the above mentioned Robin Thicke song or the Ed Sheeran song constituted copyright infringement in either Marvin Gaye song they were associated with. Yeah, the Thicke song has a similar beat and the Sheeran song has, for the most part, a very similar chord movement, but to imply that Thicke or Sheeran violated copyright is ludicrous. Beato knows music theory and in the video does a great job of “surgically” examining each song in question down to the beat. Too bad they didn’t use him as a “professional” witness for the defendants.
If we go by that kind of similarity alone, then indeed every song has been written and every songwriter who makes any substantial income off of a song had better be prepared to get nailed by the likes of organizations similar to the Marvin Gaye estate. This could effectively destroy the potential for any kind of further growth and creativity in the music industry. It’s sad.
John B
JohnAgreed. In terms of precedent, this example has got to be one of the worst-ever cases across the entire industry. If this is how “similarity” is being weighted in any copyright judgement, it will as you pointed out, really threaten to destroy creativity in songwriting. I too, wonder why Beato WASN’T asked to be a professional expert to help explain this stuff to what must be a very musically-ignorant group of people who were involved. Perhaps there is more to come out that we don’t know about yet behind the scenes but, seems the damage is done, regardless. And we should all be concerned about it.
John D. 91220
using both CW Sonar and Studio One 4 DAW; Win 10 OS; commercial audio loops as well as MIDI, EZDrummer and EZKeys; Presonus Studio 2/6 I/F; Nectar2 Production Ste; iZotope Ozone for mastering.
capax79Hi Guys,
I have found this discussion really interesting.
I’m using too Toontrack’s tool (EZDrummer for the most) for a while in my composing and sometimes they fit so well with my music I did not modify the loops or MIDI file a lot, that’s my fault of course. I still not officially recorded anything, but I have some songs which needs just a final mixing, and my intentions were to publish them sooner or later.
I just purchased EZBass and I can’t wait to add it in my creations but, reading this thread, made me realize that maybe I should think twice before publishing them or try to sell them.
I get that I owe nothing to Toontrack, but maybe I can create parts of songs (I think it’s hard to make a whole song exactly like another one) really similar or identical to other songs of other people.
Of course this could be a huge problem.
Do you think that there is a possibility that due to the loops I’ve used in my songs, I could be sued for copyrights issue? I create the songs by myself and a I could not pay other musicians to play the parts I cannot play (I’m a guitar player, anyway).
This could drastically resize my plans.
Thanks in advance for any kind reply.
Regards,
Andrea
richardcrwI apologize for not being named John, and for coming late to this discussion, but I wanted to throw out a concrete example of usage and get an answer from Moderator John, if possible.
I bought EZkeys just a week ago and almost immediately bought the Americana add-on pack. I particularly like the Arizona midi under Straight 4/4.
So… if I were to create a song in my DAW by using the EZkeys plug-in, with its own virtual piano, and my personal selection of Intro/Verse/Chorus/Prechorus/Bridge midi from Americana/Arizona, and then export that to audio and put it on a commercial album, would that violate the agreement with Toontrack, because I haven’t changed the midi or the instrument?
If I put that same arrangement through my own virtual piano instrument, would that make it legal?
If I changed the key signature and the tempo, would that make it legal?
If I changed two notes in each of the midi sections, would that make it legal?
If I used it as a layer underneath my vocals and a drum track from another source, would that make it legal?
It seems to have been established that no one except Toontrack can ever sue you for using Toontrack midi and samples — another customer who used them in a hit song would not be able to take you to court because they do not own the copyright. Toontrack does.
Again, I apologize for how late this reply is, but it seemed like the best thread I could find on this topic. I understand things much better in the context of specific examples.
Raynaldo MartineNo drummer can be sued for using the same beat Ringo Starr, or any other drummer used. The same for any rhythm instrument . These copyright issues are for the composition as a whole. The only singular issue would be the vocal melody (eight or more consecutive notes), or an instrument redoing a vocal hit as an instrumental (again, eight consecutive notes).
Bryan BlockI think it’s important to remember that we don’t own any of these patterns or progressions or licks – Toontrack does. We just have a license to use them. 🙂 I think that means we really wouldn’t have STANDING in a legal sense to claim that something was “protectable” from an arrangement standpoint, since we don’t own those bits anyway! Your own melodies and lyrics are probably what you have ownership over…and the final overall recording/piece of music as an encapsulated WHOLE.
At least that’s how I understand it. 😉
Creativity is a Work Ethic.
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