Close but not enough

[jerry Jaborek]

As a guitar player/song writer I’m able to fumble around my midi keyboard enough to create “believable” piano parts for my songs. Usually, I spend a lot of time needing to micro edit the midi parts to tighten them up. Often, this time ends up killing my creative writing vibe, and the song suffers or I get bored and stop creating. As an HUGE fan of the EZ Drummer and Superior products I was very excited about this new product. My hope was to have a product that like EZ Drummer, had a huge selection of performance patterns that i could easily edit and alter (chords), then drop them into my DAW project. It seems as if other people here were hoping for the same thing.

I have tinkered with the demo and I must confess that along with others here, I’m feeling a bit let down byEZ Keys. The current Song Browser in EZK is shockingly small. Under Pop/Rock, you get the option of only Straight 4/4 and Swing 4/4. Upon selecting Straight 4/4, you only get 6 choices: Ballad, Rock Ballad, Basic, Slow Push, One of the Greats and Memphis. Each song pattern is broken down into the basic arrangements of a song all with four slight variations. If you don’t happen to like the 6 choices, you’re out of luck…

I’d guess that Pop/Rock would be, by far your largest style writing demographic, thus I was expecting much more here. In the end, there are basically 6 choices one can make, and some of them are blatant copies of other songs… there is no way I could use those in an original. In the promo video, you use the term “extensive” to describe the library. That is not the term I would have used. I know you want to be able to sell expansions later on, but the selection in the current package feels like a lite version at best. As EZ Keys currently sits, I see it priced in the $79.99 range.

Others here have pointed out that the editing capabilities of the few patterns you do get, is LIMITED. If you drag a pattern into the time line, make a chord edit, then drag another in…the first edit is lost. This is a serious flaw, one I’m hoping will be corrected in time. Another suggestion I have is to change the DEMO Detuning deterrent to something less grating. I understand why you implement these thing in the demo version, but the detuning is so irritating, a couple of my buddies simply closed the demo and moved on.

As a supporter of Toontrack, all is not lost with this product. Yet up till now, all your releases have all been met with positive hype. My circle of engineer and song writing friends feel the same way about Ez Keys as I do, close but not enough to warrant $149 – $179. Give us an extensive original library to work with, fix the editing features and you will have a product that lives up to the standard that Toontrack has set for itself. I’m still teetering on buying the product. I feel it’s limited and overpriced, but there is not many other options out there. Quick but limited scratch song writing arrangements can be created. That being said, this product could have been a home run right out of the shoot.

Thanks for your time,
Jerry

Topic

[Rex Strother]

Sounds like the new Pop/Rock EZ KEYS MIDI that was released recently (today?) – for $29 – might be right up your alley re: more options than the limited MIDI it originally comes with. I know having to pay for additional MIDI at this stage – isn’t the best solution (it would have been nice if this library had been included in the original release), but … still … it offers more content.

Win-7 64-bit Home Edition, i7-920 quad-core 2.66 GHz, 6 GB DDR3 Pro Tools 10.2, MBox Pro (3rd Gen), M-Audio Oxygen 25 Superior Drummer 2.3, Garritan IO, Massey Plug-ins

[Scott]

Personally (not speaking for Toontrack) it is damned if you do, damned if you don’t. If you were to include mostly pop/rock MIDI with the initial EZKeys release, as you suggest, then those users working in other genres would complain. If, as TT has done, they included a wide variety of genres with the MIDI included with the initial release, users complain that their specific genre of choice isn’t properly represented.

I think its pretty clear from Toontrack’s previous releases that there is a ‘general’ MIDI content included with the initial release, then, subsequent releases that are more genre specific. For example, there are no ‘blast beats’ included with the S2 Avatar MIDI but can be had in separate MIDI packs.

…yes, I’m waiting for the blast beat EZKeys MIDI pack…

Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[jerry Jaborek]

Maybe, I need to see first hand what the sample styles are. The one used in the promo video is more of a Bob Segar / George Thorogood, Midwest, American bar rock vibe. I wouldn’t get much use from that. I have done a nice song using the standard EZK, and again for what it does well, it does very well.

I use Superior Drummer all the time and it still amazes me. There are 12 new songs with variations in the new pack. I need to hear them first before I’ll plunk down any more $$$$$.

I will be filled with sadness if any of the twelve are carbon copies of popular hits everybody knows. Useless for song writers.

[Rex Strother]

I do agree with Jerjabs that some of the material supplied was very “familiar” in a bit “too familiar” way – something more unique (or the ability to slice and dice / vary more) would be preferable for original songwriting.

I’d almost like a “my chords” – your MIDI performance – kind of feature. Dm for 2 bars, G for 2 bars, etc. From there, the chord wheel could be used to throw in variation?

That said – I’m buying the Pop/Rock MIDI to see what I can come up with this weekend. I’ll risk the $29.00.

Win-7 64-bit Home Edition, i7-920 quad-core 2.66 GHz, 6 GB DDR3 Pro Tools 10.2, MBox Pro (3rd Gen), M-Audio Oxygen 25 Superior Drummer 2.3, Garritan IO, Massey Plug-ins

[jerry Jaborek]

ORIGINAL: Scott

Personally (not speaking for Toontrack) it is damned if you do, damned if you don’t. If you were to include mostly pop/rock MIDI with the initial EZKeys release, as you suggest, then those users working in other genres would complain. If, as TT has done, they included a wide variety of genres with the MIDI included with the initial release, users complain that their specific genre of choice isn’t properly represented.

I think its pretty clear from Toontrack’s previous releases that there is a ‘general’ MIDI content included with the initial release, then, subsequent releases that are more genre specific. For example, there are no ‘blast beats’ included with the S2 Avatar MIDI but can be had in separate MIDI packs.

…yes, I’m waiting for the blast beat EZKeys MIDI pack…

Sounds like the new Pop/Rock EZ KEYS MIDI that was released recently (today?) – for $29 – might be right up your alley re: more options than the limited MIDI it originally comes with. I know having to pay for additional MIDI at this stage – isn’t the best solution (it would have been nice if this library had been included in the original release), but … still … it offers more content.

Scott, I don’t see it that way. As a guitar player / song writer / producer who can’t play piano very well, I wanted a plugin that had many more patterns of simple piano chord riffing. I honestly expected to have 25 some-odd riffs under Pop / Rock and 25 piano riffs under Country etc. EZ Drummer didn’t only have 8 beats to choose from at the start. As a song writer, I write material to sell. I went thru the small hand full of riffs in EZK in less than a few minutes. The crusher was the fact that some of the few patterns were copies of past hits. What can anyone do with those?

You can’t please everyone in this world. Some people don’t like pizza. Every product ever created will have it’s naysayers and in the world of the internet, it’s the ones with the beef that speak the loudest. I always knew that some of the editing issues would sooner or later be fixed via patch, so those issues didn’t get my undies in a wad. The total lack of content did, and still does. The Superior / EZD expansions had TONS more beats and patterns added to the core group. For $29.00, EZK Pop / Rock gives us 12. It strikes me a tiny. Maybe I’m on mars and I just don’t get how hard it is to add a piano riff to this program. It doesn’t seem that adding 40 new piano riffs to EZK is all that different than adding 40 different beats. Just a collection of midi notes in a bundle.

Again, maybe I’m off my rocker.

[jerry Jaborek]

Lowlights, make a youtube video of the new 12 . . . . I will be your best pal ! ! !

[Scott]

ORIGINAL: jerjabs

ORIGINAL: Scott

Personally (not speaking for Toontrack) it is damned if you do, damned if you don’t. If you were to include mostly pop/rock MIDI with the initial EZKeys release, as you suggest, then those users working in other genres would complain. If, as TT has done, they included a wide variety of genres with the MIDI included with the initial release, users complain that their specific genre of choice isn’t properly represented.

I think its pretty clear from Toontrack’s previous releases that there is a ‘general’ MIDI content included with the initial release, then, subsequent releases that are more genre specific. For example, there are no ‘blast beats’ included with the S2 Avatar MIDI but can be had in separate MIDI packs.

…yes, I’m waiting for the blast beat EZKeys MIDI pack…

Sounds like the new Pop/Rock EZ KEYS MIDI that was released recently (today?) – for $29 – might be right up your alley re: more options than the limited MIDI it originally comes with. I know having to pay for additional MIDI at this stage – isn’t the best solution (it would have been nice if this library had been included in the original release), but … still … it offers more content.

Scott, I don’t see it that way. As a guitar player / song writer / producer who can’t play piano very well, I wanted a plugin that had many more patterns of simple piano chord riffing. I honestly expected to have 25 some-odd riffs under Pop / Rock and 25 piano riffs under Country etc. EZ Drummer didn’t only have 8 beats to choose from at the start. As a song writer, I write material to sell. I went thru the small hand full of riffs in EZK in less than a few minutes. The crusher was the fact that some of the few patterns were copies of past hits. What can anyone do with those?

You can’t please everyone in this world. Some people don’t like pizza. Every product ever created will have it’s naysayers and in the world of the internet, it’s the ones with the beef that speak the loudest. I always knew that some of the editing issues would sooner or later be fixed via patch, so those issues didn’t get my undies in a wad. The total lack of content did, and still does. The Superior / EZD expansions had TONS more beats and patterns added to the core group. For $29.00, EZK Pop / Rock gives us 12. It strikes me a tiny. Maybe I’m on mars and I just don’t get how hard it is to add a piano riff to this program. It doesn’t seem that adding 40 new piano riffs to EZK is all that different than adding 40 different beats. Just a collection of midi notes in a bundle.

Again, maybe I’m off my rocker.

I don’t think you can fairly compare drum MIDI and melodic piano MIDI. EZkeys MIDI is 8 measures long. EZdrummer MIDI is mostly 1 bar. I guess you could use the scissor tool and chop up the 8 bar EZkeys MIDI into 8, one measure phrases if the ‘number’ of MIDI patterns is important to you.

Also, as a songwriter, I don’t want 25 1 or 2 bar piano riffs that I stick together. If I’m using the MIDI from EZkeys I appreciate the longer phrases as they sound more realistic. Personally, I’m using the MIDI to create my own patterns. I’m using the Basic Chord section and then chopping up the longer MIDI as well. I’m using the Chord Selector wheel to change the MIDI to make new sounds and patterns. Then I’m saving them to Favorites folders.

I’m not going to change your mind about wanting more MIDI (it’s like debating religion and politics ) but I want to point out that there is plenty of content to be had and manipulated using the included MIDI and the tools in EZkeys.

Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[John]

For $29.00, EZK Pop / Rock gives us 12. It strikes me a tiny. Maybe I’m on mars and I just don’t get how hard it is to add a piano riff to this program. It doesn’t seem that adding 40 new piano riffs to EZK is all that different than adding 40 different beats.

Apart from what Scott’s writing about it not being a fair comparison with beats, it’s not 40 piano riffs in the Pop/Rock EZK MIDI, it’s more like 12 times 4 times 5 which is 240 (mostly 8 bars performances IIRC) plus a handful of Ballad patterns

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Juicy]

How come this came out so close to release date of the actual product ?
This must be aimed at people who you’ll think were born yesterday

[Jay Coover]

ORIGINAL: jerjabs

Maybe, I need to see first hand what the sample styles are. The one used in the promo video is more of a Bob Segar / George Thorogood, Midwest, American bar rock vibe. I wouldn’t get much use from that. I have done a nice song using the standard EZK, and again for what it does well, it does very well.

I use Superior Drummer all the time and it still amazes me. There are 12 new songs with variations in the new pack. I need to hear them first before I’ll plunk down any more $$$$$.

I will be filled with sadness if any of the twelve are carbon copies of popular hits everybody knows. Useless for song writers.

I hear The Rolling Stones on that one.

I’m not trying to be an ass, but maybe this type of thing just isn’t for you. I could go into detail, but it would sound like I have something personal against you. I don’t.

SD 2.3 NY vol 2/Metal Foundry/C & V/Roots 1 & 2/Music City Latin Percussion/Funkmasters/The Classic/Jazz/Pop!/#1 Hits/Electronic/Twisted/Claustrophobic EZKeys 1.1 with all the trimmings

[Cygnus64]

I’ll probably get the new midi pack this weekend. I’m not motivated enough to make a Youtube video, but I’ll at least make a report on it.

[Author]

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