Audio Breaking Up on '15 MBP i7/16/SSD

[wphall]

Hello- SD3 is amazing. Great job team Toontrack! Any advice/guidance would be much appreciated on this:

Challenge: Audio is breaking up when I’m playing my Roland TD12 and triggering SD3. Can best be described as occasional and micro crackles and audio skips when playing very fast and heavily. Especially noticeable with lots of cymbal and floor tom action.

Setup: 2015 13″ Macbook Pro i7 with 16GB/SSD on 10.13.16. BUT, I have the sound libraries on an external SSD drive. I am not using an external audio interface, just CoreAudio to my headphone jack. Headphones are a midrange AudioTechnica (older and the model is rubbed off) and non noise canceling older Bose.

Questions: Could this be a result of not using an audio out interface. I’m happy to try one, but I don’t really do any audio in. I just sit down and play my kit. Thus, any recommendations of an audio output interface that plays nice and load and might take some of the pressure off core audio? Or, is there something wrong that has nothing to do with that. Also, its probably time to upgrade headphones. What are the phones of choice. I know, big question. I don’t have tons of bucks :D.

Thanks for the help!

2015 MacBook Pro: 16/512ssd, EZ2, SD2, SD3

Topic

[Jorg]

the crackles and pops mean your buffer settings are too low, try to increase the buffer size in SD3 audio/midi settings until you dont hear the crackles, the disadvantage of increasing the buffer is increased latency. There´s some cheap audio interfaces which could help this, the Roland audio capture duo ex or the Steinberg ur22 are a couple of options which work well and go cheap used on ebay usually for 50-70$

1

Thanked by: wphall

[wphall]

Thank you for the response. I’ll play with the buffer and report back. I’ll also check out the interfaces.

Thanks!

2015 MacBook Pro: 16/512ssd, EZ2, SD2, SD3

[wphall]

I look your advice and tried the following:

1. I remembered I had a Fiio USB DAC. I plugged this in and used it as my Audio Output device (Device type = CoreAudio, Output Device = FiiO USB DAC-E10)
2. Changed the buffer size from the default of 256 to 512. This helped, but I still heard the breaks in the sounds. Then took it from 512 to 1024: This helped a lot. I still hear the occasional break up in the audio stream but its far better.

Other finding audio break up with the default of 256. Also, would a different type of Audio Interface give me better results. I don’t need Audio In so trying to save a couple bucks if possible. Thoughts?

Thanks!

2015 MacBook Pro: 16/512ssd, EZ2, SD2, SD3

[wphall]

Actually, looked into it more. Found the following (and its confusing):

• Sometimes when I switch audio devices from Built in to the FiiO DAC and back, the latency would suddenly jump from 2ms to 27ms. I would then hear tons of break ups in the audio. Then, I would switch the output to another device, and then back to built in and it would go back down to 2ms for no reason. It seems like SD3 sensed its inability to keep up and would increase the output latency.
• There was no Output latency difference whether I chose the FiiO DAC or built-in. Output latency was the same at around 2ms no matter the Buffer size
• I  notice a slight break in the audio at the exact same time my external SSD would flash
• When SD3 seemed to be “settled-in” and there was no accessing the external SSD, I would hear very little audio break up even with a buffer of 256

Sorry for all the posts. Just trying to provide as much info as possible.

Are there any specific tests I can run or logs I can generate that would help with this?

Thx!

2015 MacBook Pro: 16/512ssd, EZ2, SD2, SD3

[John]

Hi,

 

I am running all Toontrack products on a 2015 15″ Retina MBP i7/16GB on 10.13.6 and can run at pretty low latency before audio breaking up but there may be hardware differences on the audio side between our MBP’s.

I don’t think you Fiio DAC is meant to handle being an audio interface when E-drumming, so I would recommend looking into one.
Preferably one with ASIO drivers.

 

BR,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[wphall]

Hey John- Good to know. I’ll hunt down an audio interface and report back.

Thx!

2015 MacBook Pro: 16/512ssd, EZ2, SD2, SD3

[wphall]

Hey John-

I went ahead and purchased a new Behringer UMC204HD and gave it a go. Still running into audio break up problems. I’ve tried both 256 and 512 buffers and it still happens. I’ve also removed the module out of the occasion and am just triggering via mouse clicks and it still happens.

Are there anything diagnostics I can run that would give more information in order for me to troubleshoot or anything I can provide that would help?

Thanks!

2015 MacBook Pro: 16/512ssd, EZ2, SD2, SD3

[John]

Hi,

while the Behringer is supposedly great bang for the buck in terms of audio quality, I have read that the drivers on the windows side aren’t very good and that you can’t get low enough latency to trigger via E-drums. On Mac it uses Core Audio, though.

@256 and @512 buffer size, you really shouldn’t have any audio break-up. Those buffer sizes will not be working for you when triggering via your E-drums, you will need to go lower.

What else is running? What other programs/processes? What kind of MIDI interface are you using? Have you tried turning off WiFi?

BR,

John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[wphall]

Hey John- Thx for the attention. This is a pretty fresh clean MBP. But, here’s what I’m going to do over the weekend: Wipe it, reload SD3, and the add additional services (dropbox, etc…) 1 by 1 to see where the interrupt if kicking in. I’m suspicious there’s a service that is conflicting with SD3. I’ll report back.

Thx.

2015 MacBook Pro: 16/512ssd, EZ2, SD2, SD3

[Jorg]

I recommended you 2 cheap interfaces proven to work and you went for the crappiest one……

[wphall]

Good to know and hope that made you feel better.

As an FYI using an external audio interface has made zero difference on latency. And zero difference on the audio popping and cutting out. I completely wiped my machine last night and reloaded everything. Still have the problem. If SD3 needed a specific audio interface to work correctly, TT should put this down as a requirement. I don’t see this requirement which leads me to believe this is not an audio interface problem.

So, I’ll continue with this drama and buy a new interface and lets see what happens.

It shouldn’t be this much work since this does not happen with SD2 or EZD3.

2015 MacBook Pro: 16/512ssd, EZ2, SD2, SD3

[Mark King]

Very strange. SD3 doesn’t need a specific interface to work. It just uses what is there. Problems like this are 99% computer related.

SD3 with older sdx,s plus Rooms of Hansa and Death & Darkness. Cubase and wavelab current versions. Roland TD50x using all trigger inputs for triggering SD3 only. Windows 11 computer. Various keyboards and outboard gear as well as VST instruments. Acoustic drums: Yamaha 9000 natural wood and Pearl masters. Various snare drums. RME BabyFace Pro FS and Adam A7X monitors

[wphall]

Think I found the problem. I haven’t completely tested it yet (spouse demanded I step away from the computer), but it looks like its a Roland Midi Driver when in High Sierra. What made this challenging to figure out was that the problem even occurs when I’m NOT using my Roland module (just mouse sticking). I decided to go back to Sierra and start loading software bit-by-bit (total pain) and everything was fine. Once I went to HighSierra and added the Roland driver, my entire system does some sort of bizarre processor interrupt every so often (I haven’t timed it yet). Where it gets more bizarre is that this is impacting my entire computer and not just SD3. Once I get permission to go back to my computer, I’ll test it further and see what happens. Might be a few days though.

This is why I went with the Berringer: I was looking for an audio and midi interface in one. I just bang around in my garage and don’t care about the best of the best. As long as it works and reduces my hassle, I’m happy.

Thx!

Also- Just found a Steinberg UR22MKII on eBay and bought it for $79. Previously, I couldn’t find one for under $139. Thx!

2015 MacBook Pro: 16/512ssd, EZ2, SD2, SD3

• This post was modified 6 years, 8 months ago by wphall.

[Joe]

Please let me know what you figure out.   I’ve been having a similar issue ….. using the standalone version with my td17  it will sound alright for a bit but then something happens and the audio gets goofy.  The only way to rectify the problem is to reboot my Mac Pro.   And even then it works for a bit and then gets goofy again.

 

 

[wphall]

Hello Again World- After a ton of work and testing, I think I isolated the problem (at least what it seems): Running SD3 from an external SSD causes occasional clicks and pops on my machine. I noticed that my external HD light would quickly flash every time I head a click/pop. So, I moved all the sound libraries over to my internal SSD on my MBP. So far, it appears to have cleared up the problem. Using an external audio interface has had no difference with this issue. I am now using a Steinberg UR22MKII (which is a great little AI. Great build quality). The only difference this has created is an ‘on paper’ difference meaning I see a 10MS output latency reduction, but no difference that I can can hear in audio quality. Not saying its not doing anything, just nothing  that impacts my very very basic use case and very untrained ears. Just wish the UR22 was a little louder in my Sony 7506 (level is nothing near real drum level).

So, from what it looks like, and I’m sure its not the only variable, running SD3 from an internal SSD seems to have had the greatest impact on the popping/clicking. Hope this helps others.

2015 MacBook Pro: 16/512ssd, EZ2, SD2, SD3

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