Adding cymbal from Metal Foundry: mixer does not work

[LeanderL]

Hi!

I’ve added a 19” China from Metal Foundry to the preset Andy Sneap Kit 3. I use the standard mic for the chinese cymbal -> OH.

Andy Sneap’s preset uses three bleeding channels, OH Cond, AMB Near and AMB Mid. After adding the chinese cymbal it appears as instrument 1 in AMB Near…but it does not show in OH Cond or AMB Mid. Why? I don’t understand that.

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at

Topic

[Henrik Ekblom]

When adding an instrument from another library, you are actually adding sounds recorded by different microphones.
Say you have loaded a library (let’s call it “A”), which has 2 overhead microphones, and those microphones has got one mixer channel each (let’s call them “Near” and Far”).
You load an instrument from another library, “B”, that only have 1 overhead. To what mixer channel should that audio go – “Near” or “Far”?.

In those cases will Superior Drummer 3 guess what mixer channels that best corresponds to the added instruments microphones. However, it won’t place the same overhead audio in both channel “Near” and “Far”, since that wouldn’t sound good.

So – in your case with the SD3 core library and the Metal Foundry china – since the two libraries wasn’t recorded with the same amount, or brand, of microphones – all the bleed won’t be accessible for that china.

All this routing can be seen, and changed, in the area called “Route Instrument Microphones”. There you can see how each instrument in the drum kit is routed.

Does this clear things up to you?
It’s tricky, but most of the times it’s just to load an instrument and use it. Once you get the hang of it, you’ll be able to accomplish almost anything in the mixer…

Henrik Ekblom - User Experience Designer
Toontrack

[LeanderL]

Thank you! This makes sense! Having as many bleed mics as SD3 does is better though…so it’s better to use SD3 only and say bye to Metal Foundry?

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at

[Henrik Ekblom]

@LeanderL said:
…so it’s better to use SD3 only and say bye to Metal Foundry?  

Not necessary. SD3 Core Library is recorded with more microphones, but if you load an instrument from another library, say Metal Foundry, and you like it then you should use it. It’s easy to get caught in “mixing with your eyes”, it looks good on screen and feels right. But as long as it sounds good – it sounds good! Don’t rule things out because it should be this or that…

I often get caught in mixing with my own logic and my eyes, and I forget to listen to what sounds good. Nowadays, I try to focus on the sound – and I promise that the quality of the audio increases by doing this 🙂

I hope it makes sense to you…

Henrik Ekblom - User Experience Designer
Toontrack

[LeanderL]

Thank you! Makes sense. 🙂 It adds bleed to other channels though, even if they are hidden in the mixer…so you have to be careful and look everywhere for changes.

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at

[LeanderL]

Henrik, I have another problem.

Please load Andy Sneap Kit 3 or Kit 4…then play a midi…view the hidden mixer channels…there’s Amb Ribbon. It is off…then solo it…I still hear the bassdrum and snare drum anthough they are OFF. No bleed is selected either…where are they coming from?
Now I’ve muted everything…seems the REVERB is what causes the sound. But how can a reverb produce sound if the kit piece itself is muted? I don’t understand this. Looks like a bug!

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at

[John]

Hi,

nothing strange, there are Pre-fader Sends to the Reverb on the Kick and Snare channels. Had these Sends been Post-fader, you wouldn’t hear them when soloing the Amb Ribbon fader.

BR,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Henrik Ekblom]

@LeanderL said:
Henrik, I have another problem.

Please load Andy Sneap Kit 3 or Kit 4…then play a midi…view the hidden mixer channels…there’s Amb Ribbon. It is off…then solo it…I still hear the bassdrum and snare drum anthough they are OFF. No bleed is selected either…where are they coming from?
Now I’ve muted everything…seems the REVERB is what causes the sound. But how can a reverb produce sound if the kit piece itself is muted? I don’t understand this. Looks like a bug!  

As John answered: the reverb is still audible because the send is placed before the Mute in the mixer channel.
We have addressed this In the latest update 3.1.0 – there is an option in the Mixer menu to set the the Mute “Pre Sends” so it always mutes the entire channel – no matter what state you have on your bus sends!

Henrik Ekblom - User Experience Designer
Toontrack

[LeanderL]

Thank you!

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at

[Author]

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