From Black Sabbath, Judas Priest and Tony Iommi to countless sessions behind the console, producer, engineer and mixer Mike Exeter has spent decades helping shape heavy music. We caught up with him to talk about what got him started, his approach to producing and mixing, lessons learned from working with rock and metal icons – plus how Toontrack’s tools fit into his creative process.
First of all, if we rewind to the very beginning – what got you into music? What were some of those first encounters that made you steer onto this path?
Learning the recorder (wind instrument) as a primary school kid showed me I had some kind of aptitude for it. This encouraged my folks to get me into piano lessons, which I did until I left school at the age of 18. I was never going to be a virtuoso, but being able to play instruments definitely set me off on this journey.
How did you end up on the engineer’s side of the glass? What fascinated you about recording and the technical side of making records?
I loved listening to records with my dad, and two major milestone records were “Dark Side of the Moon” and “Tubular Bells.” Both were sonic masterpieces. “Tubular Bells,” in particular, showed that something else was going on inside these big black plastic vinyl discs that wasn’t reality. All instruments played by one person – how was that possible?? As I progressed, building my own record collection and learning electronics & very early (mid-1970s) computer science, I learned about synths, sequencers and tape machines, etc. Album credits had these amazing job titles like engineer and producer along with the names of these magical studios. It just became something that I knew could join up my world of music and tech.
“It is quite humbling to be part of a legacy that hopefully endures way after we are gone.”
Over the years, you’ve worked in pretty much every role – engineering, producing, mixing and writing, sometimes several of them at once. Even though the lines between them often get blurred, is there one role you prefer? Why?
I think I just enjoy the thrill of solving the problem of each role as it happens. Even the “creative” roles are problem-solving exercises – using psy-ops-style techniques to guide artists through record making. I like the variety because I can’t stand taking too much time off, but I also burn out on just one role, so I need to move on to the next, and then it goes in cycles. All of it is amazing when the hard work turns into something tangible that you can share with the world. It is quite humbling to be part of a legacy that hopefully endures way after we are gone.
“When artists stop looking at the screen and actually listen, the real energy and musicality comes to the fore.”
Take us through how you approach a project you’re both producing and engineering. The band comes in, the songs are written and you’re about to start making the record – where do you begin?
It’s well known that I enjoy hearing the band playing together – I’m not a fan of piecemeal click > drums > bass > guitars > vocals production-line processes. I would rather the band gets in and plays the song. It is amazing what happens when humans interact and the energy exchanges create something that is bigger than the sum of the parts. It’s bloody hard work because everyone has to be on their A-game and concentrate on “slaying the beast.” Grids and click tracks have a place, but I feel they have become a crutch, with “you can’t edit unless it’s on the grid” being a lazy excuse. When artists stop looking at the screen and actually listen, the real energy and musicality comes to the fore. Once the initial takes are done and fixed with punches/editing (not on the grid), the song begins to reveal itself, and the decisions made in the room with everyone involved in the discussion really pay off.
In a mix, where do you usually start – drums, guitars, vocals or somewhere else? And after all these years, is there still an element of mixing that you find particularly challenging?
As a massive Andy Wallace fan, I always make kick, snare and guitars my first steps. Once they are solid, then the vocal can sit there and inform the rest of it. The challenge is to not second-guess oneself. It’s really tough because we ALL suffer from imposter syndrome and self-doubt. Having a good support network is critical. I have some great friends who I trust, and special mention should go to my old mate Andy Sneap for being there for sage advice, help and support when I really need it.
You were there for the resurrection of the Dio-era Black Sabbath and the comeback of the Ozzy-era with “13.” Is there a special reverence when taking on projects with bands like that? Do you factor in their history and legacy and approach things differently than with a “newer” band?
Those records along with Priest and Gillan were masterclasses in songwriting and humility. There’s a saying that you shouldn’t be the smartest guy in the room, and it holds true in these cases. When I first worked with Ronnie, it was like getting the best songwriting and production lessons I could have ever wished for. Watching the back and forth of “can this be better” between the guys and being the linchpin in the project from a production and engineering POV was a huge pressure on me – these guys had done some of the most iconic records with iconic producers, and I was in “THAT” seat. Ronnie and I became very close during that project, and his encouragement was huge in me moving forward in my career.
Same with 13 – Ozzy couldn’t have been more welcoming, and I considered it a privilege to be part of his life and part of an incredibly important album. Of course, most of the lucky breaks have come from being involved with my mate Tony all these years, and the trust he’s shown in me has been a gift. Each time he’s called up and said, “we’re gonna do a song with ‘X,’” I’ve done a double take and taken a deep breath.
I know that if he didn’t think I could do it, I wouldn’t be there, but it puts a huge weight on my shoulders, which needs me to be awesome.
So that filters down to other bands because they need to be shown that it isn’t just the producer’s job to make them sound great – they need to raise their games to the level where every ounce of energy has been given to doing the best they possibly can. Look at Ozzy – final show 2 weeks before he died – giving it everything for the fans that put him there.
Looking back on everything you’ve done so far, there are surely lots of standout projects – but if you had to pick one, which would it be and why?
I think it was “The Devil You Know” with Tony, Ronnie, Geezer and Vinny. It was where I truly got to be in amongst the greats for the first time, and I learned so much about myself and the guys, and I will always cherish the time I got to spend with dear Ronnie.
What’s something you believed about making records early in your career that experience has made you completely rethink?
I would say that the belief that technology is the be-all and end-all – it isn’t. It’s about the shared experience of creating something that is so powerful that it changes people’s lives. It weighs heavy when people tell me that something I worked on saved their life. There’s no excuse for leaving early to go to the pub when you have the ability to pour every ounce of effort into making something incredible.
Name a few all-time favorite albums that you did not work on where you think performance, sound and feel all come together in perfect balance.
It’s well known that “Animals” by Pink Floyd is my favourite record. It was Pink Floyd as they really sounded and the most honest album in their career. James Guthrie absolutely nailed the remix in 2019 to give us an even wider and deeper-sounding experience. “Moving Pictures” and “Hemispheres” by Rush – just insanely great records by one of the greatest bands on the planet.
“Innuendo” by Queen. Freddie’s real final words to the world – “The Show Must Go On” is painful in its majesty and sadness. I remember hearing it and thinking how incredible it was, and then suddenly he was gone.
Which Toontrack products do you regularly use, and where in the creative process do these come into play?
I use Superior Drummer 3 for most of my early songwriting sessions when we are in “that” mode. It is inspiring to get great-sounding vibey drums to allow people to hear the potential in a song. The MIDI performances are great for mocking songs up, and I love using some of the snares to build sample enhancement stuff for triggering. I really like the various packs but mostly stick with the Core Massenburg library – although Randy and Bob’s packs are pretty useful sometimes, and Andy Sneap’s Metal Machine (obviously).
EZkeys 2 is great as I love the Session Organ EKX. It’s so real. I rarely play a real Hammond, so having this in my session is a joy as it gives me something as close as I could wish for.
Finally, any hints of what you have coming up next?
Yes, as I write these answers, the second single from Tony Iommi’s latest record (first solo album in 21 years) has just been unleashed today, and the album comes out in 3 weeks. Working with Andy to get the mixes over the line was a real highlight. I wish we could do more together, but I’m not sure we should be allowed in the same room too often as there are always casualties, haha.
Also, I did the final mixes on the Ozzy and Sabbath sets on last year’s Back to the Beginning show. I spent the run-up and aftermath of that event with Greg Price (Ozzy/Sabbath/Metallica – FOH mixer and audio lead for the show) and Ollie Nesham (RedTX Broadcast Mixer) and, as a team, we brought the livestream and concert sound to the audience and then mixed the final show that is coming out on vinyl and a global cinema release the week after Tony’s record drops.
“Heavy Metal’s Live Aid” was the phrase on everyone’s lips that day – and I think we’ve done justice to that legacy.
