LeanderLHey!
Does anyone know the velocity layers SD3 uses? I know it depends on compression etc., but I’d like to get a realistic result of strong single kicks vs. uptempo vs. medium-speed double bass vs. really fast double bass.
I had a Metal Foundry kit where 124 velocity and 118 sounded different. My current kit sounds and looks (the wave) alike, no matter if I use 127, 124 or 118 velocity.
PS How do you set a velocity of 114? The grid editor always jumps from 115 to 113…I can set all other velocities just fine. Normally, you can use shift to e.g. increase or decrease the panning slider, but not for velocities.
PPS How can I have a maximum velocity of x with a random variation? I don’t want to use e.g. 122 random 3 to create velocities of 119-125, but use 124 as the default velocity, then subtract a random 0-x velocity, but without increasing the 124.
SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at
BlueMistralit is humanly impossible to sample 127 velocity layers, that’s why round robins are used, 2-3 layers for kicks, 6 to 8 layers for other drums, dispersed in all the round robins
drumjack52it is humanly impossible to sample 127 velocity layers, that’s why round robins are used, 2-3 layers for kicks, 6 to 8 layers for other drums, dispersed in all the round robins
While true I do know that for some piano libraries machines have been built to take the place of a human when doing the sampling so they could get all possible velocity values. I don’t know if any drum VST has done that just not TT. I’d like an official statement as to how many layers TT uses though and what they are.
Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram
LeanderLThanks, I know…but maybe there is a recommendation for certain velocities, e.g. 124, 114, 104, 94, 84…
SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at
drumjack52Thanks, I know…but maybe there is a recommendation for certain velocities, e.g. 124, 114, 104, 94, 84…
I’d suggest not overthinking things like you have a tendency to do. The absolute number doesn’t mean a thing. If it sounds good then it is good. Precise numbers don’t mean a thing in music except for maybe time signature like a waltz which is 3/4 time.
Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram
1
Thanked by: Bear-Faced CowLeanderLYou are right. Do you know the answer to my other questions please?
1) How do you set a velocity of 114? The grid editor always jumps from 115 to 113…I can set all other velocities just fine. Normally, you can use shift to e.g. increase or decrease the panning slider, but not for velocities.
2) How can I have a maximum velocity of x with a random variation? I don’t want to use e.g. 122 random 3 to create velocities of 119-125, but use 124 as the default velocity, then subtract a random 0-x velocity, but without increasing the 124.
SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at
drumjack52You are right. Do you know the answer to my other questions please?
1) How do you set a velocity of 114? The grid editor always jumps from 115 to 113…I can set all other velocities just fine. Normally, you can use shift to e.g. increase or decrease the panning slider, but not for velocities.
2) How can I have a maximum velocity of x with a random variation? I don’t want to use e.g. 122 random 3 to create velocities of 119-125, but use 124 as the default velocity, then subtract a random 0-x velocity, but without increasing the 124.
You just don’t get it do you? That little bit of velocity doesn’t mean anything and you’ll never hear it. If you were working in a daw with the MIDI then the velocity change is easy. Take for instance in ProTools (which I use). I can set a velocity of say 120 with a random variation of say 3. That way I would have random velocity possibilities of 117 to 123. Then tailor the center number (120 in my example) to be the middle of what you want. Even the greatest of drummers would not be able to control their velocities like that. Not Neil Peart, Vinnie Coliuta, Buddy Rich – no human.
That being said SD3 can’t do what you want as near as I know.
Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram
LeanderLIt does not matter if it makes sense or not, but if and how it can be done. I program my drums in Guitar Pro, then import them into SD3 and expand the kit and set the velocities there.
If the e.g. snare is not powerful enough in the mix and I want to increase the entire velocity of all snare hits by a certain amount WITHOUT pushing 124 beyond 124, this can be only done with certain functions.
I’d love to see an “auto velocity” function. It should be possible in 2025…there are limitations how powerful and fast a drummer can hit a kit piece…the more hits per time, the softer, e.g. sixteenth notes snare hits at 180 BPM vs. quarter notes at 180 BPM or sixteenth notes at 100 BPM. Then the function could calculate possible velocities automatically.
SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at
JohnHi,
AFAIK, how many velocity “layers” are sampled depends on the instrument and library in question. I would presume it also has to do with the total size of the final library product but a general rule of thumb would be that newer libraries have more.
I.e. there are no fixed numbers here and it doesn’t matter that much, since the engine is clever enough to take care of what’s in between.
If you have a lot of RAM, you can always go into the ‘Voice and Layer’ Property Box and set the Soft, Gradient and Hard Limits to ‘-‘ to sees if you experience an improvement for the song you are working on but most of the time Defaults are good since most modern music is very loud and consistent.
Regarding setting a note’s Velocity value to 114, it’s an odd one. I will have to check with my colleagues about that but if you have two (or more) notes set to 115, and select them in the Velocity Lane, you can drag the Velocity Slider -1 to set them both to 114.
I think most of what you are asking about regarding Velocity can be done in the Grid Editor by selecting an instrument’s all (or song part’s) notes and use the available tools.
Having the ability to tell the Grid Editor to set an instrument’s selected hits to a specific value and then randomize in only a negative direction in a specific range would make for a request in the ‘Requests & Feedback’ section though.
BR,
John
John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor
1
Thanked by: Scott EshlemanLeanderLThank you!
SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at
LeanderLPS I found a way to randomly increase or decrease the velocity without touching the maxium velocity. e.g. velocity 124 should remain 124 and 118-100 should be increased by 5. You can draw and select all notes BELOW 124, then increase them.
SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at
drumjack52PS I found a way to randomly increase or decrease the velocity without touching the maxium velocity. e.g. velocity 124 should remain 124 and 118-100 should be increased by 5. You can draw and select all notes BELOW 124, then increase them.
So you found a solution but the question is can you really hear the difference between the hits? Have a musician friend do a blind listening test with you and see if he can tell the difference.
Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram
LeanderLNo, but it is about having a good feeling by tweaking things and playing with knobs.
SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at
drumjack52No, but it is about having a good feeling by tweaking things and playing with knobs.
I don’t have the time or energy to chase things that don’t really matter to the music at hand. And neither do those I do work for. If a client wants something I will try and do my damndest to do do it for them. Other than that if it comes to something that makes no sense and they won’t (or can’t) hear then that’s that. Been at this long enough to know the deal.
I try and help where I can with posting here and other forums the wisdom I’ve come by over the decades so take that as you will. Do I know everytihng? No. Never said that. But I do know (for the most part) what works and what won’t. I treat drums in SD3 or any other drum vi the same way I treat physical drums.
Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram
LeanderLYou are right, but I’ve been fighting with such issues for 20 years. I released some albums many years ago when I was young and you could release music with bad sound as good VSTis weren’t around back then (and I did not have them). Then I wrote a lot of songs and did not want to release them with limited mixing knowledge, being afraid to make mistakes….and I need a tedious way of working to feel secure when doing things….even when I manually enter numbers for alike-sounding velocities.
Anyway, thanks for your help, I’ll continue working.
SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at
LeanderLPS That’s why I wanted to know velocity layers…if velocity 115 and 114, 113… trigger the same samples, I would like to know the ranges so I don’t have to use velocity x random 2-3 for example.
e.g.
127-125
124-122
121-119
118-115
114-110
109-105
104-100
99-95
94-90
etc.
It would be handy to know the exact numbers…so I can use 127, 124, 121, 118 etc. as fixed numbers if I need a decreasing hit strength instead of guessing or using the random function to add a human feel.
SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at
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