Topic: Hihat: closed tip, closed edge, tight tip, tight edge?

Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 16 total)

Replied September 8, 2024 at 13:22 #3289902

drumjack52
Participant

Found this via a web search as the forum search isn’t all that great: https://www.toontrack.com/forums/topic/tip-and-edge-of-hihat-what-do-you-mean/

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.7
Operating system: macOS High Sierra (10.13)
Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.0
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

Replied September 8, 2024 at 16:36 #3289954

LeanderL
Participant

Thank you!

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at

Replied September 8, 2024 at 17:29 #3289966

pumpkinking
Participant

If I were playing a real hihat, and I wanted the “crisp” sound of a “closed tip” articulation (hitting the bow of the closed hihat with the tip of a drumstick, which is normally low in volume) but I wanted as much volume as I could get, I would probably push hard on the hihat pedal and hit the edge of the hihat. Guessing that translates to “tight edge” at max velocity but really I’d have to listen to the samples on the kit in question to see if that is how they intended that articulation. Also different hihat cymbals can respond to that with various amounts of “washiness” (how big they are, are they the same size, flatness of the cymbal edge, etc).

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.7
Operating system: macOS Sonoma (14)
Replied September 8, 2024 at 19:31 #3290006
LeanderL
Participant
Thank you!

First, I had this part…42 is closed hihat…that counts on the kickdrum hits…but it was too low in volume (even at 127 velocity)…but open hihat is loud…so I changed it from closed hihat to ride bow and bell shanks…
Tempo: 200 BPM

Here is my mp3 (not final, no final velocities):

[audio src="https://www.seelenpuls.at/temp/hihatkit.mp3"]

Is it possible to change the ride back to closed hihat and use the tight tip, tight edge samples? Are they recorded for such a beat or is a 200 BPM thrash rhythm with kickdrum and snare too loud for closed hihat?

When checking the rhythms in SD3, I only found open hihat beats for blast beats, but no single closed hihat.

By the way, my virtual drummer does not need his foot to switch from closed to open hihat because my kit has two hihats. One is played normally, but the other one is standing next to the first hihat and is always closed so the drummer can play open hihat and closed hits in alternating order while playing doublebass…and does not need a foot to switch the hihat.

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at
- This post was modified 10 months, 1 week ago by LeanderL.
Replied September 9, 2024 at 02:54 #3290119

LeanderL
Participant

PS Ride…what does this drummer play on the ride? 00:24 … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQL3wl2CZ9A

Bow tip is too low in volume in SD3… is it bow shank?

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at
Replied September 9, 2024 at 15:55 #3290223
Wolfgang
Participant
Not sure if I get you right but let me answer from a drummers perspective:

The closed articulation represents the state of having your food down on the hihat pedal in a relaxed way. Kind if the usual position to play. The tight articulation simulates giving some extra pressure on the pedal. This gives you an extra short decay and alters the overtones, some hihats start kind of ringing when beeing squeezed. So it’s not a extra heavy hit, neither edge, tip/bow or bell.

Playing blast beats in high tempi you usually don’t hit heavy because you use finger technique. Have a look at the video you posted, it shows very clear that he only moves his fingers and takes advantage of the rebound of the cymbals and drums. So turning velocity up to 127 might not be the best way to simulate blast beats. If you need the hihat to be louder try to raise it in the levels tab or in the mixer.

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.7
Operating system: macOS Ventura (13)
- This post was modified 10 months, 1 week ago by Wolfgang.
Replied September 9, 2024 at 17:03 #3290235

LeanderL
Participant

Thank you! Ah, so it is the pedal for “tight” sounds.

I checked some Toontrack grooves and they use alternating bell shank and bow tip 1 hits….the bell for the accent…bow tip 1 for the rest.

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at

Replied September 9, 2024 at 17:08 #3290236

Wolfgang
Participant

That’s exactly how you would play it on the ride. But again have a look at the video: he plays the blast beat with the tip on the bow. I doubt that shank on the bell would give him enough rebound to play that fast.

Of course it’s totally up to you to use the bell shank 🙂 I just wanted to make clear how a drummer would usually play it.

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.7
Operating system: macOS Ventura (13)

Replied September 9, 2024 at 22:54 #3290323

LeanderL
Participant

Thanks. I want to program realistic drums, but the name of the samples are sometimes difficult to understand.

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at
Replied September 10, 2024 at 01:22 #3290353
LeanderL
Participant
Seems I need to make my ride louder…such hits are clearly audible in the video, but not when I play them on my kits.

@wolfgang Do you know if the open hihat samples open 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 are just different samples for variety or are they based on the level of openess of the hihat? So 5 is totally open…and 0 and 1 are almost closed and very close to a closed hihat?

I need to know if my virtual drummer can play doublebass using both feet AND play “open edge 2, open edge 2, open edge 3, open edge 4” or if this requires using the hihat pedal to control how open the hihat is.

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at
- This post was modified 10 months, 1 week ago by LeanderL.
Replied September 10, 2024 at 14:13 #3290493

drumjack52
Participant

I barely hear the hits on his ride cymbal. The crashes and chinas – no problem but not that much on the ride. What exactly are you chasing? First you talk about hats and now rides – I’m confused. And for the love of all that is drumming do not write parts that no real world physical drummer can play. A real drummer can only play a max of 4 hits at one time.

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.7
Operating system: macOS High Sierra (10.13)
Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.0
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram
Replied September 10, 2024 at 16:43 #3290554
LeanderL
Participant
Do you mean the death metal drumming video? The ride is loud?!? I don’t know what you mean. The red one is the ride, right? It is a general thread on hihats and rides and what to hit, names of kitpieces etc.

[img]

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at
- This post was modified 10 months, 1 week ago by LeanderL.
Replied September 10, 2024 at 18:00 #3290588

Wolfgang
Participant

The hihat articulations from open 0 to open 5 are the different stages of openness. Usually they are all played by the same MIDI note and the stages are controlled by MIDI CC 4. So yes, a controller pedal could be useful. If you need the hihat or ride louder just open the “Level” tab and raise the volume.

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.7
Operating system: macOS Ventura (13)
Replied September 10, 2024 at 19:54 #3290628
drumjack52
Participant
LeanderL wrote:

Do you mean the death metal drumming video? The ride is loud?!? I don’t know what you mean. The red one is the ride, right? It is a general thread on hihats and rides and what to hit, names of kitpieces etc.

[img]

This post was modified 10 months, 1 week ago by LeanderL.
You started asking about hats and now you’re adding in rides. It seems like you have several problems that are going beyond what this thread started out as. Go back and re-read what I wrote and you’ll see that I said the ride was barely audible but the crashes and chinas were really loud.

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.7
Operating system: macOS High Sierra (10.13)
Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.0
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram
Replied September 10, 2024 at 20:13 #3290635
LeanderL
Participant
Thanks, Wolfgang! But I can only increase the overall level of a kit piece, e.g. the hithat and not for individual articulations, right?

Drumjack, so? I am just asking questions in my thread. Wolfgang has been really helpful. Why complain in my thread? The ride is loud…if it is barely audible, you either have faulty speakers or it’s your room or you think the ride cymbal is something else. Apart from the china cymbal, the ride is the second loudest kit piece in the video.

SeelenPuls ~ Poetic metal from Austria: SeelenPuls.at
Grummelgnom ~ Sociocritical metal from the forest: Grummelgnom.at
- This post was modified 10 months, 1 week ago by LeanderL.
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Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 16 total)

Hihat: closed tip, closed edge, tight tip, tight edge?

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Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 16 total)