Shen GHope I’m not being too fussy/pedantic, but I find the sidestick samples for the VK cast bronze snare (one of my favourite snares of any SDX I own) to vary in sound too much, making beats sound strange.
I’m no drum nerd or have a great ear, but they sound like different drums to me. I think it might the Ludwig 417 sneaking in?
I think it only happens on the harder hit layers, but I’m not sure how to isolate it well. I hope you’s can hear what I mean.
Cheers.
patrick maguireturn off “randomize hits”.
You can make the specific midi note only trigger one specific sample.
most people complain about the samples NOT being varied enough, so your issue is an easy fix
Mac Studio
patrick maguireyou can also easily change which sample is the selected cross stick (sidestick) sample.
Mac Studio
Shen GAhhh, I always forget about that randomise hits option. Was trying eliminate/isolate it with layer options, but alas neither way have managed to get rid of it.
For your 2nd suggestion, do you mean just use a sidestick (I too agree it SHOULD be called cross stick 😛 ) sample from another drum?
Couldn’t figure out how to isolate some different samples for comparison. Something I don’t understand about the randomness of multi sampled round robins etc. But I have a clip that should still make it clear. It finishes with the most offending sample ( also note the “OK” at the tail end hehe). I think there is another sample that sounds a bit off but doesn’t have any talking at the end.
There is also a sample in Legacy of Rock that has, I presume, Eddie Kramer talking but I don’t want that gone because it would be too cool to have his voice on a track, even if people can’t hear it! 😀
patrick maguireyes, i hear the varied samples. IT sound like you are triggering different midi notes. I WISH i could get the typical snare to sound that random. wow.
As far as finding the correct articulation for a new sample. IT just seems to happen the way i want when i do it. This type of discussion is VERY hard to “articulate” because there are so many overlapping terms and many ways to get there.
The method i prefer is to import a new instrument all together, and then just manually move the midi notes ( or if your using the SD3 grid editor, the move the correct grid trigger) to the new instrument.
I typically use a tom channel that is not being used by the existing drum kit.
What would be great would be to allow us to DUPLICATE the snare with an identical snare set up and then adjust the samples as needed on the “new snare”. then you can have both
Mac Studio
Shen GI’m all for nuanced realistic variation but not the sound of a rubber ball bouncing around a drum shop! ;D
Something I find particular about cross stick as well is that should have a pretty consistent metronomic style to it. At least from my memory and music. This is sounding like a broken clock with its: tick tick tick tock tick tock tock tick tick tock 😛
I’m not sure I understand the way you are going about it. There’s so much to this program, midi, daw’s etc that I dont know. I do next to no midi editing, choosing to try and emulate the acoustic kits, equipment and studio setups I will never have. I certainly could just use a sample from another drum, but that would go against my fantasy of this set up being “real!”.
Cheers
Mark KingIf you want it consistent then lock it into the velocity you want. You can do that with the min and max settings on the velocity settings on the right. Also as above for stopping round robin etc. you can also turn it down if then too loud.
Another option is if there is a side stick you do like on another snare then stack it and use that instead.
For me I want it to be powerful and be able to work in a DAW. SD3 is the pro version with all the complexity that brings. You may have been better with ezdrummer if you don’t want to learn sd3.
SD3 with older sdx,s plus Rooms of Hansa and Death & Darkness. Cubase and wavelab current versions. Roland TD50x using all trigger inputs for triggering SD3 only. Windows 11 computer. Various keyboards and outboard gear as well as VST instruments. Acoustic drums: Yamaha 9000 natural wood and Pearl masters. Various snare drums. RME BabyFace Pro FS and Adam A7X monitors
Shen GAs I said, I do want realistic variation, but the more I listen to these the more I’m sure they are different drums. Unless one sample is with a detuned skin and a 15lb weight on it ala Estepario Siberiano style or something. Or perhaps I am a drum guru with a great ear! ;D
I managed to get rid of the most offending sample by dropping the max velocity to 90, and while that is not as bad as reducing it to a single shot/no round robin, it seems an unnecessary workaround and loss of samples. I’m not sure if I should think of SD3 as an amazing tool or a product aiming for the perfect recreation of acoustic kits, gear and recoding spaces for edrummers and/or home producers.
I never said don’t want to learn SD3, just that I know there is a lot I don’t know. And tbh, EZX’s have never grabbed my ears like the superior line. I don’t get that ‘close my eyes and hit a drum and be “convinced” I’m in a room with real drums’ kinda thing. I don’t have many pre SD3 SDX’s, but even they seem rather lifeless compared everything they have released since Bob Rock’s. So much so I’m basically on insta buy whenever new ones come out… with a few regrets 😛
Anyhoo, I’m leaning towards just using the sidestick sample of another snare. 1st world problems!
Damian BluntThe sidestick samples definitely will not be from another snare but the sound can vary in sound a lot depending on the placement of the stick on the head. We can look at increasing consistency for the next update.
Damian Blunt - Toontrack
Quality Assurance
Betatesting
Shen GThanks for getting back to me Damian.
While I don’t envy the teams job of sampling so many variations, and balancing the need for enough difference to sound natural and avoid the dreaded machine gun effect and enough consistency so as you hear back what you expect when you play it. And I don’t want to deny others some variety if it usable for them in a midi programming scenario, but as a e-drum player I find this example to jarring and unrealistic to use. Perhaps if it wasn’t on one of my favourite snares either, I could more easily ignore it 😛
If there was positional sensing on every instrument and articulation so you could trigger the various sounds at will, that would be another thing.
*shudders at the thought of multiplying what you’s already do with various levels of edge to centre hits* 😀
Cheers
patrick maguireIm always developing techiques to make the Snares sound more real.
When Im working a song that need very realistic drums I use up to for instance of SD3 just for more varied snare options. After the drums are arranged. I break of the snare hits on multiple SD3 tracks. IT takes a little bit of set up but it sounds so good. Each different instance of SD3 has the snare a tiny bit tweeked. For example one track is pitched up 1% one track has a shortened envelope, one track has eq1 brighter…etc…
THe results are great. makes it sound like a real drummer. Ive tested Drummer/engineers , they can pick it out as “fake” drums. Whereas , almost all songs of SD3 without all the special tweeks, are easily identified as “FAKE”.
This whole concept doesnt really apply to certain types of music. Like hardcore modern metal (the faker it sounds the more the dudes like it), or dance music and obviously Hip Hop type stuff.
However, i do a lot of quieter, classic, and acoustic style music. That needs the best fake sounds possible.
Im still hoping for a button that says “MORE VARIATION” . I realize this would require the SDX creator to include these extra samples, but cmon, people would love it once the heard the difference.
The pic shows a typical multi snare session ( 4 variations)
Mac Studio
Shen GAhh yeah, I’m starting to see how different the wants and needs of someone composing in midi and someone wanting the playing experience as I described can be. I can only imagine how good your drums would sound with that effort and detail.
Good luck Toontrack keeping both types happy!
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