ErazHey there folks,
recently I bought SD3 as a virtual drum addition to my studio. What I really like about it is the realism if you take your time to tweak the midi file, the big choice of different articulations and the nice array of drumsounds already included in the core library. But one thing I feel is missing. I just cannot get it to sound like a drummer which hits the drums really hard. When producing big rock tracks or tracks with metal influences I just feel there is missing something, to a real drum performance with a hard hitting drummer. If SD3 was a real drummer I’d say he should hit everything like 20% harder if you know what I mean, especially for toms, snare and kick. I know you could process the drums further to make them sound “harder” with compression and so on, but that is absolutely not the same. I don’t need a more processed sound, that is done later with mixing. I need the right feel from the raw tracks. Even with all velocities way up to the max, I feel there is missing something. I was working at another studio and worked with SD2 there and did not have the same impression. I think it was the “Avatar Kit” or the “Music City USA Kit”. All 4 core library kits suffer from the same problem. I hope there is just something I am doing wrong, but I tried everything possible with no luck.
JorgThe Rock Foundry SDX is the only library I found sound „louder“ in the default settings
ErazThe Rock Foundry SDX is the only library I found sound „louder“ in the default settings
Thank you for the tip! So after spending all that money on SD3 I need to spend another 150$/€? Thats really disappointing…
onewayout_1The Rock Foundry SDX is the only library I found sound „louder“ in the default settings
Thank you for the tip! So after spending all that money on SD3 I need to spend another 150$/€? Thats really disappointing…
You could also turn it into a positive and take this fantastic Professional edition tool and get a chance to learn all the ins n outs and all the nuances to make the sounds you’re looking for.
There literally no limitations to what you have now….. Becoming a good producer let’s us have no limitations on whatever we have to work with…
ErazThe Rock Foundry SDX is the only library I found sound „louder“ in the default settings
Thank you for the tip! So after spending all that money on SD3 I need to spend another 150$/€? Thats really disappointing…
You could also turn it into a positive and take this fantastic Professional edition tool and get a chance to learn all the ins n outs and all the nuances to make the sounds you’re looking for.
There literally no limitations to what you have now….. Becoming a good producer let’s us have no limitations on whatever we have to work with…
Thanks for your answer. But I need the right sound at the source and thats the problem here. And yeah unfortunately these are the limitations.
These drums sound too soft, even on the max velocity. Of course you can compress and limit the hell out of that, but in the end it will still be a soft hitted drum. Especially for kick/snare and toms, cymbals less but still. It feels like theres missing the last 10-20% of hard hits in all the core libraries. And this youtube video also proofs my point imho.
onewayout_1The Rock Foundry SDX is the only library I found sound „louder“ in the default settings
Thank you for the tip! So after spending all that money on SD3 I need to spend another 150$/€? Thats really disappointing…
You could also turn it into a positive and take this fantastic Professional edition tool and get a chance to learn all the ins n outs and all the nuances to make the sounds you’re looking for.
There literally no limitations to what you have now….. Becoming a good producer let’s us have no limitations on whatever we have to work with…
Thanks for your answer. But I need the right sound at the source and thats the problem here. And yeah unfortunately these are the limitations.
These drums sound too soft, even on the max velocity. Of course you can compress and limit the hell out of that, but in the end it will still be a soft hitted drum. Especially for kick/snare and toms, cymbals less but still. It feels like theres missing the last 10-20% of hard hits in all the core libraries. And this youtube video also proofs my point imho.
- This post was modified 5 years, 3 months ago by Eraz.
Yes I have to agree with you… There are limitations and you need to get the sound at the source!
But for that investment of another sdx we have access to a studio drummer playing our style at any time… We’re not having to book a great drummer and hope we get a great performance that doesn’t need to be tweaked later on in the mix because we have changed the arraignments or bass parts….
Don’t get me wrong I understand where you coming from… But we’re moving up into a higher level of professionalism with this gear and it takes more money and then it saves money on the other end…
Bear-Faced CowThese drums sound too soft, even on the max velocity. Of course you can compress and limit the hell out of that, but in the end it will still be a soft hitted drum.
Sorry, but that’s not true. Listen to many raw unprocessed recorded drum tracks and you’ll hear them sounding wimpy, wooly and somewhat limp before any real processing is applied. Compression is more for evening out the dynamics and perhaps bring forth the transients, but that’s only one thing. There are way more techniques to bring out the aggression. You need to figure out what’s best for the song.
Especially for kick/snare and toms, cymbals less but still. It feels like theres missing the last 10-20% of hard hits in all the core libraries. And this youtube video also proofs my point imho.
No… it doesn’t prove your point. Maybe it’s illustrating that you’re not doing something correct in your mix. One of the main reasons that the rock and metal SDX packages sound the way they do is because much of the processing that that you are believing is wrong is applied at the source (ie, is part of the recording process) bringing out that aggression. Because SD3 Core Library is a one size fits all library, applying that type of processing at the source is not a viable idea since it only applies to one genre. Chances are, if you are not getting what you need out of a kit piece, you’re using the wrong kit piece for that track.
If it’s not aggressive, the only reason is because it hasn’t been made to be aggressive. That’s a user limitation and not SD3.
Thank you for the tip! So after spending all that money on SD3 I need to spend another 150$/€? Thats really disappointing…
You couldn’t get a professionally recorded set(s) of drums from Bob Rock, Michael Ilbert or Mark Lewis so cheap, and that’s not even accounting for the time to rent the studio space! If you want all of that stuff that you didn’t want to do yourself, then the above are your people since they’ve done the work for you. There’s no something for nothing.
jord
1
Thanked by: Emmanuel Cambier
Greg JohnsonMaybe some of these will get you closer to what you want to hear
https://premixed-templates-presets.com/collections/superior-drummer-3-presets
GregJ
ErazThese drums sound too soft, even on the max velocity. Of course you can compress and limit the hell out of that, but in the end it will still be a soft hitted drum.
Sorry, but that’s not true. Listen to many raw unprocessed recorded drum tracks and you’ll hear them sounding wimpy, wooly and somewhat limp before any real processing is applied. Compression is more for evening out the dynamics and perhaps bring forth the transients, but that’s only one thing. There are way more techniques to bring out the aggression. You need to figure out what’s best for the song.
Especially for kick/snare and toms, cymbals less but still. It feels like theres missing the last 10-20% of hard hits in all the core libraries. And this youtube video also proofs my point imho.
No… it doesn’t prove your point. Maybe it’s illustrating that you’re not doing something correct in your mix. One of the main reasons that the rock and metal SDX packages sound the way they do is because much of the processing that that you are believing is wrong is applied at the source (ie, is part of the recording process) bringing out that aggression. Because SD3 Core Library is a one size fits all library, applying that type of processing at the source is not a viable idea since it only applies to one genre. Chances are, if you are not getting what you need out of a kit piece, you’re using the wrong kit piece for that track.
If it’s not aggressive, the only reason is because it hasn’t been made to be aggressive. That’s a user limitation and not SD3.
Thank you for the tip! So after spending all that money on SD3 I need to spend another 150$/€? Thats really disappointing…
You couldn’t get a professionally recorded set(s) of drums from Bob Rock, Michael Ilbert or Mark Lewis so cheap, and that’s not even accounting for the time to rent the studio space! If you want all of that stuff that you didn’t want to do yourself, then the above are your people since they’ve done the work for you. There’s no something for nothing.
jord
I record unprocessed raw drums on a weekly basis, so I dont have to listen to other recordings, as I know how they sound. If the aggression is missing in the playing, then every other processing on top of that will still be a compromise. A bad one.
And that shows that you don’t get the point. I am well aware what processing is needed to get raw sounding tracks sound “finished”, but the outcome will only be a good sounding performance, if it was played with the right attitude.
And looking on other forums it seems I am not alone with my impression. Again I am talking about the performance, and the only thing which is missing, what I can think of, is that when sampling the core library, they did not include really heavy hits.
Because everything else sounds really really good and real. So yeah, this is a real limitation (at least of the core library) and not a user limitation. Genres like Rock and harder will suffer from that.
Bear-Faced CowI record unprocessed raw drums on a weekly basis, so I dont have to listen to other recordings, as I know how they sound.
Arrogantly put! Not listening to other recordings is rather myopic and rather limiting in itself.
If the aggression is missing in the playing, then every other processing on top of that will still be a compromise. A bad one.
Considering you don’t listen to other recordings, this is a weightless observation. Perhaps you need to listen to other raw recordings to get what I am saying.
And that shows that you don’t get the point. I am well aware what processing is needed to get raw sounding tracks sound “finished”, but the outcome will only be a good sounding performance, if it was played with the right attitude.
Oh, I very well get it. I’ve gotten it for the past 40 years. Not to mention that I have also heard many aggressive recordings in my lifetime where no matter the performance, it doesn’t show in the raw tracks. Raw tracks are just that: RAW! And with everyone mixing in the box these days, it is even worse because everyone is recording without processing and are not going to get what they are after because they’re “fixing” it in the mix. And because this is all in the box, it takes process to bring out the good performance. But then you already know that.
And looking on other forums it seems I am not alone with my impression. Again I am talking about the performance, and the only thing which is missing, what I can think of, is that when sampling the core library, they did not include really heavy hits.
Spare me the mob mentality. Again, this is a one size fits all in the box situation and it takes some processing to bring it out. If they want something more then they need something with the processing already applied. If you’re telling me that the heavy hits aren’t there, then how am I able to bring them out on snares like the Tama Bell Brass and Pearl kick and toms? Tell me all you want about performance, but all you’re telling me in the case is that you want someone else to bring out the performance for you. So, please, go ahead and tell me again how I don’t get it.
Because everything else sounds really really good and real. So yeah, this is a real limitation (at least of the core library) and not a user limitation. Genres like Rock and harder will suffer from that.
Considering that they haven’t suffered on any rock (classic, modern and metal) mixes here, I heavily disagree. A “real” limitation would affect ALL users.
jord
Mark Kingthe tom rim shot sound will give you the crack you want as does the snare rim shot.
SD3 with older sdx,s plus Rooms of Hansa and Death & Darkness. Cubase and wavelab current versions. Roland TD50x using all trigger inputs for triggering SD3 only. Windows 11 computer. Various keyboards and outboard gear as well as VST instruments. Acoustic drums: Yamaha 9000 natural wood and Pearl masters. Various snare drums. RME BabyFace Pro FS and Adam A7X monitors
ErazI record unprocessed raw drums on a weekly basis, so I dont have to listen to other recordings, as I know how they sound.
Arrogantly put! Not listening to other recordings is rather myopic and rather limiting in itself.
If the aggression is missing in the playing, then every other processing on top of that will still be a compromise. A bad one.
Considering you don’t listen to other recordings, this is a weightless observation. Perhaps you need to listen to other raw recordings to get what I am saying.
And that shows that you don’t get the point. I am well aware what processing is needed to get raw sounding tracks sound “finished”, but the outcome will only be a good sounding performance, if it was played with the right attitude.
Oh, I very well get it. I’ve gotten it for the past 40 years. Not to mention that I have also heard many aggressive recordings in my lifetime where no matter the performance, it doesn’t show in the raw tracks. Raw tracks are just that: RAW! And with everyone mixing in the box these days, it is even worse because everyone is recording without processing and are not going to get what they are after because they’re “fixing” it in the mix. And because this is all in the box, it takes process to bring out the good performance. But then you already know that.
And looking on other forums it seems I am not alone with my impression. Again I am talking about the performance, and the only thing which is missing, what I can think of, is that when sampling the core library, they did not include really heavy hits.
Spare me the mob mentality. Again, this is a one size fits all in the box situation and it takes some processing to bring it out. If they want something more then they need something with the processing already applied. If you’re telling me that the heavy hits aren’t there, then how am I able to bring them out on snares like the Tama Bell Brass and Pearl kick and toms? Tell me all you want about performance, but all you’re telling me in the case is that you want someone else to bring out the performance for you. So, please, go ahead and tell me again how I don’t get it.
Because everything else sounds really really good and real. So yeah, this is a real limitation (at least of the core library) and not a user limitation. Genres like Rock and harder will suffer from that.
Considering that they haven’t suffered on any rock (classic, modern and metal) mixes here, I heavily disagree. A “real” limitation would affect ALL users.
jord
- The post has been modified 5 years, 3 months ago by Bear-Faced Cow
5 years, 3 months ago by Bear-Faced Cow"> 3 times, last modified 5 years, 3 months ago by Bear-Faced Cow.
Man cmon… of course I listen also to other recordings. What I wanted to say (again), is that I know what real heavy hitted drums should sound like, as I record them regularly in my studio. And the core library doesn’t get me there, because I miss the last 10-20% of, lets call it “energy”. Of course I check also other recordings and don’t limit myself to anything.
It seems you feel personally attacked, just because I don’t agree that the core library is made for heavier stuff. If it works for you, well thats good for you. But it has limitations for me and other producers as well, as I recently found out by checking other online forums.
And the reason is what I mentioned multipled times above. So before giving up on SD3 I wanted to know if there is a way to get these last 10-20% before processing.
So if you don’t have any constructive advice on that, I would be grateful if I could go on with this conversation here without having to justify myself.
Erazthe tom rim shot sound will give you the crack you want as does the snare rim shot.
- This post was modified 5 years, 3 months ago by Mark King.
Well thats awesome, thank you for that advice! I will try that out the next time.
Edit: I feel the normal center hits, especially on the pearl kit toms, are harder than the rimshots.
I also recently found out that there are 2 different kick hits in the drum map, one being harder than the other. That helps a little bit too.
Bear-Faced CowActually, I think you’re the one feeling personally attacked because I don’t agree with you. Or, you wouldn’t have backpedaled when I called you out. I only took what you said and nothing more.
That being said…
I miss the last 10-20% of, lets call it “energy”.
It’s there… it’s just buried.
it works for you, well thats good for you. But it has limitations for me
Because you would rather have the pre-processing applied to bring out that energy. That’s fine because there are SDX’s with well-known producers that do it for you because those packs are not one size fits all. And as I said, you couldn’t buy their expertise so cheap. Take it as you want, but you can either pay in money or time to get the results you want.
and other producers as well, as I recently found out by checking other online forums
You can use that all you want to validate your own opinion. Considering that Bob Rock, Mark Lewis and Andy Sneap added their own presets to the Core Library, I’d say that has a little more weight than the mob mentality.
So before giving up on SD3 I wanted to know if there is a way to get these last 10-20% before processing.
If you don’t want to work at it, fine. Leave it at that. If giving up means jumping ship, then perhaps try what I said above to protect your investment rather than invest in another piece of software in protest. It’s not as disappointing and daunting as you’re making it out to be. When I’m not using the Core Library, Rock Foundry is my go-to because it has an amazing late 60’s and early 70’s Ludwig kit that you won’t even find in the Core Library and the fact that it was recorded by Bob Rock almost makes it magic to anything that I apply it to. It’s not just the sound you’re looking for, but probably the kits too. Why not go over to the product page and listen to them… it’s something to think about.
So if you don’t have any constructive advice on that, I would be grateful if I could go on with this conversation here without having to justify myself.
On the contrary. If you can’t take anything that I or anyone else is telling you as constructive and are feeling the need to justify yourself instead, then please feel free to pass over those posts.
jord
Bear-Faced Cowthe tom rim shot sound will give you the crack you want as does the snare rim shot.
- This post was modified 5 years, 3 months ago by Mark King.
Well thats awesome, thank you for that advice! I will try that out the next time.
Edit: I feel the normal center hits, especially on the pearl kit toms, are harder than the rimshots.
I also recently found out that there are 2 different kick hits in the drum map, one being harder than the other. That helps a little bit too.
- This post was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by Eraz.
You can also stack them. No processing required and you can design what you’re looking for.
jord
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