Kevin McIntoshI assume the “Room” and “Comp” channels are simply reverb effect channels, technically.
So after separating all my EZ drummer tracks and converting them to audio sound files, am I correct in presuming the “Room” and “Comp” channels would not break out into any visible sound waves because they do not represent anything visible-simply reverb applied to the rest of the “On” channels.
Thanks.
ScottI assume the “Room” and “Comp” channels are simply reverb effect channels, technically.
No, the ‘Room’ channel is the sound of the kit picked up by the room mics in the room the kit was recorded in. The ‘Comp’ channel is the channel of the kit bussed through a compressor.
So after separating all my EZ drummer tracks and converting them to audio sound files, am I correct in presuming the “Room” and “Comp” channels would not break out into any visible sound waves because they do not represent anything visible-simply reverb applied to the rest of the “On” channels.
I’m not getting any issues here. You should be able to hear audio when bouncing, provided you don’t have the channels muted in the EZD mixer and you have them routed to an available output in your DAW. You haven’t said what DAW that is BTW.
Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor
Kevin McIntoshScott,
My DAW is Presonus Studio One, Version 2.5 (on a Mac).
I first did route all of my 8 EZ drummer channels to a single track but was able to create separate busses in the mix console for each of the 8 channels.
When I exploded pitches to tracks to create separate tracks (in the arrangement view) for each of the channels and bounced them (to create audio files -i.e. with audio wave forms – for easy visual editing) I didn’t get any resulting track(s) that represented the Room or Comp Channel – i.e. any channels that showed audio wave forms for those 2 channels.
I presumed that’s because those 2 channels would just be adding reverb to the other 6 channels of actual beats. But sounds like from what you’ve said those room and comp channels should have their own tracks with audio waves??
As I would need those 2 channels if I’m going to be editing the other 6 to keep everything in line with each other.
ScottBut sounds like from what you’ve said those room and comp channels should have their own tracks with audio waves??
Yes. I’m not familiar with Studio One so I’m not sure what the ‘exploded pitches to tracks’ does. In Reaper, Cubase, and Samplitute (the DAWs I use) you route out the channels from the EZdrummer Mixer into separate outputs in the DAW and you can bounce to audio. I end up with 8 stereo audio files. If I route the Room and Comp channels in the EZdrummer Mixer to separate outputs in the DAW, I end up with Room and Comp audio files.
Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor
Kevin McIntoshThe explode pitches to tracks simply collects all of the MIDI data generated by EZ drummer, and in this case, assigns each corresponding drum part to the corresponding MIDI note on its own track. i.e. if an EZ drum snare = C# as a MIDI note (pitch), than all of those C# values get assigned to a track, but are read as EZ drummer snare hits.
The data is still in that point, Midi data. You then have to bounce each of those tracks to get audio wave files for each track/drum part on separate tracks.
When I first set up EZ drummer on this project, I used the “Multichannel” selection in the EZ drummer UI to get the 8 channels into 8 busses. But simultaneously, all of the Midi data they created only ended up in 1 audio track. But upon bouncing out that track, it did not create separate tracks for Room and Comp.
This also does create new busses for these new tracks of bounced data. So now I have 2 sets of busses for each of those 8 channels (the new busses + the original ones created when I first did the Multichannel selection as described in the preceding paragraph.
My Mac is at home… when I go home tonight I can check to see if Room and Comp busses were created at that point.
ScottIf you have set up the multi outputs into Studio One as described in this video (the video shows S2 but the same method is used in EZD just with only 8 stereo outputs), and you have routed the Room and Comp channels to an output in the EZD mixer that is enabled in the Studio One mixer, you should be able to hear audio in those channels in Studio One and, thus, be able to bounce audio through those channels.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGdEzrtPdoQ
Like I said, I don’t use Studio One so I can’t verify if what you are doing is going to result in audio through the Room and Comp channels when routed correctly out of the EZD mixer and into the Studio One mixer. If set up like the video above, I can’t see any reason audio wouldn’t output to any of the 8 channels.
Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor
Kevin McIntoshHi, yes, that video illustrates what I did…
but as you see there that process only created the virtual inputs in the mixer console, which does separate all 8 channels and creates an audio output through those virtual inputs, including audio of the room and comp channels. But it didn’t add “tracks” up at the top in the arrangement view. Everything still resided in a single track …. i.e. the midi data for each of the drum parts.
So, forgive me if I’m missing something, but to get that single track to break out into separate tracks up there in the arrangment view, what would I need to do?
thank you.
Kevin McIntoshare are you saying bouncing (after exploding pitch to tracks) should create the tracks for the room and comp lanes as bouncing after that did create tracks for the other effects. Perhaps I missed something when I performed that bounce.
thing is, in that single track I began with, there was no midi data representing the room and comp channels.
ScottIn every DAW I’ve worked with (Cubase, Reaper, Samplitude) there is no need to ‘explode pitch to tracks’ to get rendered audio files from audio channels. I’m going to download the Studio One manual so I can see what that function does as it seems an unnecessary step to me.
Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor
ScottFrom the Studio One manual in the Export to Audio File menu section:
Choose an output from which the mix will be created in the Output selection box. Only the
Main Out will appear in the list, by default, but if there are any Sub Outs in the Console, they
will appear in this list as well. Check Import to Track if you would like the mix imported to a
new Track in your Song.
I would assume that if you click in that Output selection box you should see Sub Outs that are the 8 outputs of EZdrummer. If those are selected, any MIDI that is fed those outputs are rendered as audio and it looks like you should be able to import those rendered audio tracks into new track in a single operation.
The MIDI data for your drum part doesn’t need to be separated to achieve ‘kick on one audio track, snare on one audio track, room on one audio track, comp on one audio track, and so on…’ The above method should work, or should I say, it works like that in the 3 DAWs I use.
Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor
Kevin McIntoshThis thread on the presonus forum offered answers (I asked the questions in December); however, again, they simply explain how to get to virtual inputs, but I don’t see an answer on getting separate tracks in the arrange lane.
http://forums.presonus.com/posts/list/32291.page#217245
also, someone in another post on the forum added this pitchlist for the Nashville EZ drummer pack (the pack I am using); nowhere does it show a pitch for “Comp” or “Room”
ScottYes, you are correct. There is no ‘Room’ or ‘Comp’ MIDI note. They are audio channels and not MIDI notes.
I guess I’m confused as to what you are trying to accomplish. When I want to render my drum track that I’ve created in my DAW (I’ll use Reaper in my example) this is what I do.
I load EZdrummer as a VSTi and select the multi out option. This create 9 tracks (one for the MIDI and 8 stereo audio tracks). I open the EZD mixer and select the Multichannel preset in the Output section. Using the Nashville EZX, this routes as follows:
Channel 1: Kick
Channel 2: Snare Top
Channel 3: Snare Bottom
Channel 4: HiHat
Channel 5: Toms 1, 2, and 3
Channel 6: Overhead
Channel 7: Room
Channel 8: Comp
This is the default routing and can be altered if desired (put Snare Top and Snare Bottom to a single output channel, or Overhead and Room to a single channel if I want to split the Toms out to the own channels for example).
I then create my drum part on the single MIDI track.
When I’m done, I select the 8 stereo channels for EZdrummer and click the Render and select ‘Stems (selected tracks)’. I also select ‘Add items to new track in project when finished’ to bring the 8 stereo audio files into my current project.
Bob’s your uncle.
From reading the Studio One manual, it sounds like a similar function is available.
Now, if you’re trying to get every articulation played in the MIDI to render in it’s own audio file (kick, 5 snare articulations, all 15 hi hat articulations, etc), then my above method isn’t the way to do it. But, you are asking about the Room and Comp channels that aren’t kit piece articulations, they are audio channels that contain multiple instruments. For example, the Room channel plays all articulations from all the kit pieces that the Room mics picked up.
Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor
Kevin McIntoshHere’s what I am trying to accomplish.
If I have the 6 tracks (the tracks of the 8 from the multichannel out UI in EZdrummer that aren’t “room” and “comp”) and I’ve taken them from that single midi track they all fell into and bounced out to separate tracks to get my audio wave representations for each of those six drum parts (making it easier to visually edit than trying to hand edit the MIDI note representations prior to the bounce) and start sliding those audio wave representations to adjust timings, i.e. I move the kick a hair, then I move the snare to line up with that), I was thinking does the “Room” and “Comp” data automatically go with the kick when that kick event is moved.
In other words, let’s say I have a bass kick landing on beats 1 and 3 in the timeline. But I move the kick to fall just a couple milliseconds after the 1 and 3 beat on the timeline grid. Would the corresponding Room and Comp data for the “Kick” need to be moved a millisecond over as well? Or did it automatically move with the kick because it’s not technically a “MIDI” value note, it’s simply midi data attached to that original drum note.
My understanding is, there would not be an adjustment necessary to “Room” and “Comp” tracks because now we’ve determined that Room and Comp data isn’t a “Midi” value, but simply an effect that will be triggered by the Kick drum data. So if Kick drum beat is moved, the Room and Comp (theoretically) has moved with it simply because that data is part of that Kick drum beat data in the first place.
Correct?
Thanks for all your timely help by the way!!
Kevin McIntoshOh, and I guess one thing…. it could be possible that once that midi data is bounced into an audio wave, then would the Room and Comp data no longer be attached to that drum kick… Or is it that the room and comp are simply “technically” effects channels at this point, simulating “Room” and “Comp” presence for that kick?
ScottThe Room and Comp channels aren’t ‘effects’ in the traditional sense. IOW, an effect is traditionally used by feeding audio to them and getting a reverb or chorused sound or a distorted sound out of the effect outputs. This is not how the Room and Comp channels function in EZdrummer.
When recording the library, microphones were set up to capture the drum kit. Kick mics, snare mics, tom mics, hi hat mics, overhead mics, as well as room mics. After recording was completed, at ‘mixdown’ if you will, a mixer was used and those mic channels were processed to create audio files. During this mixdown, it was decided to bus the mic channels to a compressor (Comp channel in the EZD mixer) and record the results as well. You now end up will thousands of small ‘samples’ for each of the channels in the EZD mixer. They are all audio files, even the Room and Comp channels. Unlike a traditional ‘effect’ in a mixer, you can’t adjust the effect (you can’t adjust the compressor settings in the Comp channel, for example).
Now, getting back to your workflow questions:
I find it much easier to adjust the MIDI and then, when the MIDI is exactly the way I want it, I bounce. I work extensively with real drums as well as with drums created with S2/EZD, and I find it much easier. Now, if you just have 1 track with just kick, 1 track with just snare, 1 track with just HiHat, etc. then this isn’t much of an issue. If you have audio channels such as Overheads, Room, or Comp, this is more complicated. These channels have a mixture of all of the drums (drum bleed). As audio files, you have to be careful when you move a kick drum hit as it will now not be aligned with the OH, Room, and Comp audio tracks. It’s more complicated and it’s why I make sure I do my aligning of my MIDI before I bounce to audio. With this method, you can nudge your kick hit as MIDI and the OH, Room, and Comp channels will nudge along with it and be aligned. If bounced as audio first, nudging will be a PITA in regards to the OH, Room, and Comp channels.
So, if you want to take advantage of the OH, Room, and Comp channel sounds, you should adjust your MIDI and then bounce to audio files. If you don’t want the OH, Room, and Comp channel sounds, you can use your ‘explode pitches to tracks’ method and the results will just be the close mic’d kick, snare, hi hat, and tom sounds but you won’t get any of the OH, Room, and Comp channel sounds.
Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor
Kevin McIntoshOk, i think that makes sense.
Thanks so much for all your help. sorry for the trouble.
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