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SD3 - Regarding the new GRID EDITOR
August 16, 2017
5:54 pm CET
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David Levy
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March 29, 2013
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Hi Toontrack,

Does your new GRID EDITOR have a NUDGE BUTTON .., I hope so ?

Because the new SD3 drum GRID editor needs a nudge button with user setting increments ,

If it is included - then great - that is awesome ..., then I will no longer need to juggle midi back n' forth in and out of superior drummer to pro tools midi editor (to fine tweak notes) and back to superior drummer for playback..., which takes forever.

If not , than for me the SD3 GRID EDITOR will not be a very useful feature for me at all .

Because ..., for the GRID EDITOR to be seriously useful .., any notes added via the SD3 - GRID EDITOR , must have a NUDGE BUTTON with user setting increments , so the user has the OPTON to move the note either forward of the grid beat, or behind it - in an increment that is decided upon by the user.

I know SD3 has a humanise function, and I do not know if this applies to notes added via the SD3 Grid editor or , not .., but even so , it will still need to give the user the decision of where exactly to place (or move) individual note - if it is to be effective.

Please Toontrack .., please inform if this NUDGE BUTTON - with user setting increments is included in SD3's Grid Editor - or not ?

August 17, 2017
1:35 am CET
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Thorsten
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March 22, 2009
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Just my 2cents to this topic.
In my opinion all exists midi/drum editors from each DAW apps on market are less useful as they should be. Why? Because they are IMHO all not enough musical as they should be: For me a good midi/drum editor must be able to analyse a groove in a right musical way. In context to the timeline the editor must be able to "understand" which note is probably meaning as a 8th - 16th note or even at the same groove a uneven triplet note and so on. Then automatically the editor should colourized schematically all individual notes inside the groove to see immediately if a note is to early or to late on the grip. Simply select than one specify colour and all notes with this colour will move full or like 50-80% (or whatever you want) to the straight grip. This would be a fast musical way to adjust just the most timeless notes on a groove with just one step. without destroying the natural feel to much. But as I described above - In this case a midi/drum editor has to know exactly what the note is meaning on the timeline. Right know no commercial midi/drum editor on market will have this "intelligent" know-how. And it comes more complicated if the timeline is not constantly with the same strictly time. (When recording without click track) In this case all editors sucks straight way.

So, Toontrack is specializing in making natural sounding VST instruments and making natural feeling (midi) drum grooves. They should know what I'm meaning. We will see what the new Grid editor inside SD3 is able to do.

August 17, 2017
9:26 am CET
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Henrik
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September 24, 2010
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The nudge feature won't be implemented in the first release. This is, as you say, a very useful feature, and we will look into it as soon as we can.

August 18, 2017
10:07 am CET
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David Levy
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March 29, 2013
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Henrik said
The nudge feature won't be implemented in the first release. This is, as you say, a very useful feature, and we will look into it as soon as we can.  

Thank you for replying Henrik , and I am super glad Toontrack acknowledges that a NUDGE feature is not only need but seriously intends to ADD IT Cool

My Main use with Superior Dummer as a songwriter / Composer when CREATING DRUM TRACKS
Is I have a huge library of almost every Toontrack MIDI library available,
.., plus many other 3rd party libraries, plus libraries I created myself

With ..., Toontracks groundbreaking 'TAP TO SEARCH' feature , which was first introduced in Easy Drummer 2 , this feature shaved a huge amount of man hours off the time it took me to search through my MIDI Libraries to find the appropriate MIDI file to fit my compositions

.., and as a long time Superior Drummer 2 user .., The sole reason I purchased EZD2 , was for the Tap to find feature - and now this is in SD3 Cool

But RARELY - Do I ever find a beat that just fits 'just right' .., IT ALWAYS NEEDS SOME EDITING ...,
- and this is now the most time consuming of the whole processes. (see how in the top opening post)

as EDITING is needed for ..,

- Adding missing notes .., but they most often need to be NUDGED slightly away from the GRID - to give them the right feel
- or existing notes need to be NUDGED to create the best feel.
- or notes need to be NUDGED to coincide with a NON-Tempo moment in a SONG or to align with a particular moment on FILM
- Or Notes need to be NUDGED when a passage is played freeform and not to metronome .

Basically - the ability to NUDGE is just as important as the ability to add edit and move the notes themselves - in any MIDI file Wink

I cannot wait until this NUDGE feature is added as Henrik mentioned ..., and will wait with baited breath .

Until then I will still have to export all MIDI files out of SD3 for the necessary editing,
ie; out of SD3 - to my DAWs Midi Editor for the necessary corrections (as more often than not - NUDGE is always used)
- then re import the now edited file back into SD3 if further arranging is nessisary.

I find un-nudged Notes tend to stick out like a sore thumb (ie; in an unmusical / negative way)

..., but it will be a moment of breakthrough (and will be yet another huge timesaver) - just like 'Tap to Find' was ,
..., when Toontrack can add Nudge to their GRID EDITOR

August 18, 2017
12:37 pm CET
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John
Sweden
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June 18, 2004
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One thing to add is that you do not necessarily need to snap a note to the Grid in the Grid Editor, you can turn off the snap and move your added note just slightly.
If you Zoom in on the Grid, moving a note just some ticks is easy.
Also, the Grid goes down to 64T, which is pretty small steps.

BR,
John

August 20, 2017
2:14 pm CET
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David Levy
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March 29, 2013
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John said
One thing to add is that you do not necessarily need to snap a note to the Grid in the Grid Editor, you can turn off the snap and move your added note just slightly.
If you Zoom in on the Grid, moving a note just some ticks is easy.
Also, the Grid goes down to 64T, which is pretty small steps.

BR,
John  

Hi John,
Thanks for advising of this temporary workaround, and might be ok as a temporary workaround for one or two notes per song.
It is a lot of mouse work and clicks though for anything more than one or two notes, as this visual procedure of zooming to move notes would be very time consuming and involve a lot of inaccurate guesswork.

Nudging notes manually with a dedicated nudge button ,
..., which allows users to select their own Nudging preference in samples or milliseconds - is a trial and error thing also , but is way faster and accurate, as and the only visualising needed is to select the note only.
- and from there you let your ears 'be the boss' as to what sounds best while you NUDGE notes either forwards or back accurately by using your left or right arrow keys, and hear the result in an instant without any zooming.

Hopefully Toontrack will allow this to happen even while the midi file (that is being edited) is being played back in LOOP MODE Cool

I cant wait until Toontrack add this Confused

September 30, 2017
12:23 am CET
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newdensity
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September 23, 2017
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I would like to second the importance of this nudge feature. At the end of the day the AI cannot replace an engineer's ears and letting the AI do its work is important for saving time and workflow; however, going in there to really nudge things together where needed is a critical feature. Some type of nudging that a user can define the ms on for how much it moves midi notes or highlighted sections with each specified hotkey hit would be extremely useful.

November 23, 2017
2:32 am CET
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Miguel de Azcarate
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July 21, 2011
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I second any midi editing feature that adds… anything. In EZD2, I could control the play/pause from the keyboard with a different key than space bar which controls Pro Tools.
When you edit, you hit that space bar bang bang bang and I need another shortcut to control play/pause in SD3 from the keyboard. I don't want to use the mouse for play/paus. Did I miss this ?

December 7, 2017
2:59 pm CET
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Magicaldog
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Forum Posts: 4
Member Since:
October 19, 2011
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David Levy said
Hi Toontrack,

Does your new GRID EDITOR have a NUDGE BUTTON .., I hope so ?

Because the new SD3 drum GRID editor needs a nudge button with user setting increments ,

If it is included - then great - that is awesome ..., then I will no longer need to juggle midi back n' forth in and out of superior drummer to pro tools midi editor (to fine tweak notes) and back to superior drummer for playback..., which takes forever.

If not , than for me the SD3 GRID EDITOR will not be a very useful feature for me at all .

Because ..., for the GRID EDITOR to be seriously useful .., any notes added via the SD3 - GRID EDITOR , must have a NUDGE BUTTON with user setting increments , so the user has the OPTON to move the note either forward of the grid beat, or behind it - in an increment that is decided upon by the user.

I know SD3 has a humanise function, and I do not know if this applies to notes added via the SD3 Grid editor or , not .., but even so , it will still need to give the user the decision of where exactly to place (or move) individual note - if it is to be effective.

Please Toontrack .., please inform if this NUDGE BUTTON - with user setting increments is included in SD3's Grid Editor - or not ?  

They have released Version 3.0.3 and still no sign of any nudge function ? !!!

Having the possibility to nudge notes left and right ( user defineable steps ) with the left and right arrow buttons and move notes up and down with the up/down arrow buttons would save lots of edit time instead of having to work with the mouse which is extremely time consuming.

The mouse should only be used for selecting/adding notes and the rest should be done with the keyboard IMHO.

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