EZKeys: More instruments

[NevsNL]

Im a fervent user of Band-in-a-box to add different instruments to my songs which i cant play. Great stuff, but the interface is horrible.

Toontrack is always spot on with interface design, sound, everything basically. Are there plans to expand the EZKeys series to include drag-and-drop stuff for say guitar, violin, bass etc? Like a sort of “EZBand”?

Topic

[Martin]

We don’t comment on future releases, I’m afraid. Let’s all enjoy EZkeys for now and see what the future brings!

Martin Kristoffersson
Sound Designer

[Tom]

As a Band in a Box user you should be warned about EZKeys. It sounds like you jump to the same conclusion that I did. And that conclusion was that EZKeys was a kind of BiaB, but for a single instrument and also working as a vst from inside my DAW. If true it would have been great. But it is not.

You can’t enter a chord sequency like C, Am, F, G and then drag the variations down to play along those chords.

What you can do is drag down a piano variation that comes with its own chords like C. G7, C, G7. First after that is it possible to change the chords to your liking. So okay, you make it C, Am, F, G. Done.

… Well, as it happens you don’t like that variation in context with the rest of the song, so you drag down another variation to try out …. Oooops. Now the chords you changed take on those coming with the new variation. Once again you have to change back to C, Am, F, G. Step by step. And so it goes for every variation you audition.

It is obvious to me that it would take a Toontrack programmer only a few hours to change the program so that chords can be locked to bars, and piano variations dragged on to bars will play along with user chosen chords rather than their own chords. So come on Toontrack and do this. That’s what I thought I bought. As for pianos I already have several better.

[NevsNL]

Thanks for the heads up, that was precisely what i was thinking. Now that you have clarified this i can save myself 139 Euros. I was indeed hoping it was a very good BiaB-replacement for piano, and hoping they would expand with different instruments. I would definitely have bought it in that case. Now that it seems to me that the interface is not intended in the way i use BiaB i will be saving the money to get BiaB 2012. Unless Toontrack changes EZKeys to work like you described and is planning on adding other instruments i have no use for it. Again thanks.

[Tom]

I don’t want to be to negative about EZKeys, though. I actually think it could be what I (and you) wanted: a BiaB replacement for single instruments working from inside your DAW. It should only take a few programming tweaks to get there.

1. Make it possible to enter and lock a chord sequence (the BiaB way) in the song track. So that any variation dragged to the song track will play along with these chords, rather than us just having to adjust this manually every time. You could even enter the chord sequence automatically by importing a full midi track. EZKeys already has this great option, except you can’t “lock” the analyzed chords in the song track.

2. Give us a midi output. Then we can route to Kontakt or other instruments to get something else than the EZKeys piano. Again having to paste manually to a midi track just to auditon is too cumbersome while you are trying out different variations/instruments.

With these two small changes I think EZKeys will be worth the money. So don’t dispair Toontrack, you could have this ready for us next week in version 1.02. In the longer run it can then be expanded with more instruments with more midi variations. Just like your other EZproducts. We will be hooked and buy all the time.

[NevsNL]

Yeah,

BiaB could so use some good competition, Toontrack is the company that can be that imo.
As soon i wil get word of the changes you suggested and the intention to expand to other instruments im gonna be a happy customer. Until then ill have to stick with BiaB.

[Dave Modisette]

ORIGINAL: tombuur
It is obvious to me that it would take a Toontrack programmer only a few hours to change the program so that chords can be locked to bars, and piano variations dragged on to bars will play along with user chosen chords rather than their own chords. So come on Toontrack and do this. That’s what I thought I bought. As for pianos I already have several better.

You are absolutely right that EZkeys is nothing like BiaB. You have a very cool idea that you should pass on as a feature request.

I don’t know about the time frame in which it could be implemented. The programmers are very good and maybe they could put together the changes needed in a time frame as you described but it’s us betatesters that slow everything down. LOL. We’re slow as molasses and want to try things out in different hosts and stuff. And then we find a few small niggles and then it starts all over again.

Dave Modisette www.gatortraks.com www.plasticsamerica.com http://www.gatortraks.com/forum

[NevsNL]

Thanks Dave,

but i still dont get it (maybe i should get the demo but im too lazy :)) If its not like BiaB then what exactly does it do? It seems to me like it generates a random song? Which u can change but the interface makes it a total drag to do so?

[Tom]

I will try to explain, but a demo probably shows it better.

In BiaB you enter the chords for a whole song. In the simplest example you choose a style to cover the whole song and all instruments (both can be changed, of course). Now if you don’t like the style, you just try another, and it will still play the song with your desired chords.

In EZKeys you only have a single track for a single instrument (piano). You can’t enter any chords beforehand. But you can drag different vaiations down in the track. These variation will cover maybe 4 bars and comes in different BPM, style for verse, bridge, chorus etc. You can choose a key, but other than that the variations will come with their own chords. Could be like C, G7, Dm, C. Once in the track, however, you can change those 4 bars to C, Am, F, G, if that is what is needed in your song.

The problem comes if you don’t like what you audition. As soon as you drag another variation down in the track it will bring its own chords and once again you have to enter C, Am, F, G.

In BiaB you probably sometimes try out 10-15 styles to get what you want. Now imagine having to do that and change all chords in the song back to what you want in EZKeys? But since you can actually change the chords after the insertion of a variation I don’t see why EZKeys shouldn’t have the option to remember your preferred chords before the insertion and then automatically change to give you those chords. That’s why I think it only requires a small change to EZKeys to give us what we want.

[Dave Modisette]

I think the issue with remembering chords is that EZkeys not only allows you to DnD chords from the midi collection that is included but also any midi file you happen to have. Another thing is that some of the midi songs included contain backing licks and rifts that would not maintain their character or usefulness if dropped on a different chord. For example a blues lick with a dominant 7th wouldn’t sound good over the top of a maj7 chord. Although I’ve used BiaB years back successfully, the phrases can be pretty “canned” sounding and I can spot a BiaB track fairly easy. The midi song files that EZkeys has are played by a real studio keyboardist so I think they will sound a little more natural. Can’t say that after a while I won’t be able to spot an EZkeys track just the same but at least we can cop some midi keyboard tracks from other sources.

Yes, EZkeys will require more of a partnership with the human composer as opposed to an artificial intelligence composer but I believe the reward will be a better sounding track with more human characteristics.

Dave Modisette www.gatortraks.com www.plasticsamerica.com http://www.gatortraks.com/forum

[NevsNL]

@Tombuur; its totally clear now, and at first i couldnt uderstand why Toontrack would leave such an opportunity untaken by not including the features you mentioned. But Daves post clarifies that its not as simple as i may think.

Funny, i just recorded an entire album using mostly BiaB Realtracks (and SD) to accompany my guitarplaying and singing. Ofcourse the Realtracks are limited so if you know them well you may spot them, but overall i think it sounds pretty natural.

[Tom]

Okay, maybe I just wasted my money buying this. I have for a long time hoped for a vst plugin working on a single instrument roughly the way BiaB does standalone. I also do the singing and everything that looks remotely like a guitar myself. Drums I do with Jamstix/Superior. So what I need is something to do the keyboard stuff.

Alas, I compose my songs with a fixed chord sequence. And as this thread demonstrates it is a pain to have EZKeys add the keyboard instruments. So still waiting for someone to write such a vst.

[NevsNL]

I hear ya, a BiaB alternative (and my that i mean a real alternative) by Toontrack would be heaven on earth. Well musicproductionly speaking then….. 🙂

[brookes]

@NevsNL said:
Im a fervent user of Band-in-a-box to add different instruments to my songs which i cant play. Great stuff, but the interface is horrible.

Toontrack is always spot on with interface design, sound, everything basically. Are there plans to expand the EZKeys series to include drag-and-drop stuff for say guitar, violin, bass etc? Like a sort of “EZBand”?  

[brookes]

Totally agree, BIAB is so windows 98 looking…..I live using it, but hate having to look at it for too long…and a great idea to have an EZ Band….yes please.

[Bart Childers]

If it hasn’t been mentioned already: I would love the ability to have an EZ KEYS “shell” that wraps around a VI of my choosing. So I could use my EZ KEYS MIDI library and UI to ‘play’ any VI in my library.

Mac OSX 13.n , M2 Pro MBP 16, 32GB RAM, LPX 10.n.n, PT2023.n

[Author]

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