SD 3 and hi hat

[keith andrew]

Can anybody tell me where to find a comprehensive breakdown on how to get my hi hats to sound smooth in SD3? It’s a constant struggle. The transitions are just not smooth. I have a TD-30KV with the VH-13 hats. Thank you.

Topic

[ColdSteel_1]

There’s an excellent video with exactly that information:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN0qsbVgUyw

Also, I wonder if the Smoothing parameter affects transitions between hi hat articulations. I think it instead controls only secondary (and tertiary and so on) hits on an already vibrating snare or tom shell.

[keith andrew]

Thanks man. I’ve watched this like a hundred times already :). I just feel like when it comes to adjust the little slider things (openness 1,2,3, etc.) I’m just farting around and not really getting it right. I wish toontrack would really break it down, like A/B what happens when you do X and Y and so on. I wondered about the smoothing effect too. I cranked that up all the way to 12 (past 11!!) and it didn’t seem to do much. It seems like the certain HH’s on certain kits work better than others as well. The 15″ Paistes seem to be the smoothest. I don’t get why that is the case either. It seems like on the the thinner hats on the drier kits the transitions just have these huge jumps between the open settings. SD3 rocks over all it’s just so frustrating to be so close with everything and then the HH’s are this constant battle. First world problems to the extreme 😉

[SeanBee]

Struggle for me too! I have to switch between the Generic HH and Roland HH to get the presets to take. Wish I could help you.

[John]

@keith andrew said:
I wondered about the smoothing effect too. I cranked that up all the way to 12 (past 11!!) and it didn’t seem to do much.

Hi Keith:
https://www.toontrack.com/manual/superior-drummer-3/?type=manual_sd3&search=Smoothing

Perhaps you could record when you are playing your HH and save with a Project and attach it here, so someone may take a look at your setup and the triggering data?

BR,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[keith andrew]

Thanks John here is a sample. The kit here is a modified 70’s dry kit with 14″ Zildjian K’s. In the audio I am hitting the Hats on the top (not the edge) and slowly opening the hats with my foot. Where it becomes noticeable is when it gets to the last couple open sounds. Then I hit it and open and close with my foot at the same time and you can hear the lack of smoothness. The transitions seem to ‘jump’ from one to the next. Thanks!

[Matthew Kudirka]

I can’t comment on the td30/vh13 combo, but I had the exact same issue with my td15/vh11 combo. I switched back to using a cy5/fd7 combo and the HH sounds and plays awesome. I wasn’t a huge fan of this switch, but Im totally on board with it now. Very happy with the sound and smoothness.

[John]

Thanks Keith,

but I would really like to have a look at that Project file. Preferably with that HH triggering MIDI on the Song Track.

BR,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[keith andrew]

Hi John,

I will happily give you whatever you need I am just not sure exactly how to post what you’re asking. Can you please explain How to provide what you need? Thanks!

[John]

Hi,

please open your SD3 Project and record when hitting the HH the same way as in the MP3 example, so you demonstrate your issue.
Next, Save this Project as an .sd3p file at a convenient place, like the Desktop.
ZIP archive this .sd3p file by right-clicking (or Ctrl+click since you’re on Mac) and ‘Compress’. This is a file format that can be attached to a post here.
Reply to this post and click ‘Upload Attachments’, add the file by drag and drop or clicking ‘Add Files’, then ‘Start Upload’ followed by ‘Submit Reply’.

BR,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[keith andrew]

Hi John,

Here it is. Let me know if this is sufficient. I can always try other sets or whatever. It seems to be more of an issue with some HH’s than others. Paiste 15″ seem to be the smoothest. Thanks!

[John]

Thanks,

I will have a look.

BR,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[keith andrew]

Any luck with looking at my project John? Thanks.

[John]

Hi Keith,

I have but I have asked my colleagues for a 2nd opinion.

BR,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[John]

OK,

you have a shortened Level Envelope release in the OH Dyn Mic in the Mixer, which makes the HH sound cut off in that microphone. Turn this off. You can solo the HH mic and hear the difference.
Also, since the Open Edge 5 is totally open and very different in sonic character, I’d recommend turing it off if you are going to open and close the HH slowly like this.

I hope this helps.

BR,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[B Sandy]

I have the same issue. The problem, which is clear in Keith’s mp3, is that if you strike the HH when it’s open, let it ring and then slowly move the pedal, the transition between samples is non-existent: it just cuts from one sample to the next. You’d expect some kind of cross-fading between the samples but instead SD3 just seems to cut between them.

As far as I can see, this has nothing to do with the drum brain or trigger (mine’s a TD12 + VH11). The TD12+VH12 does give a discontiguous CC4 (it jumps in steps of about 5 (out of 128). But I’ve tried smoothing the CC data in an editor so that it’s totally smooth and moves in steps of 1 and it makes no difference to the sound from SD3.

The problem (as far as I can tell) is that there is no smooth cross fading between the samples. I guess one doesn’t normally come across this so much in a percussion sample but any virtual instrument for a sustained instrument (e.g. a horn) with a post note-onset intensity/volume/swell controller would have such a feature, right?

The same problem exists though with the note onsets as well – there’s no smooth transition between the sample. So if you do a roll on the HH and slowly open the pedal, you can clearly hear when the sample changes, which sounds totally unnatural. (I’ve attached an mp3 of this.)

[Author]

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