Drum levels average when mixing

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Drum levels average when mixing - Dec.-6th-2009 1:29:05

keano

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Hey guys when mixing where do you try and keep your drums levels at (kick/snare/drum buss?) I have heard that you should keep them around -6db so you don't max out the master buss.

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RE: Drum levels average when mixing - Dec.-6th-2009 2:13:11

Scott

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Personally, I try to keep all of my channels to peak no higher than -6dBFS.

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RE: Drum levels average when mixing - Dec.-6th-2009 6:43:47

keano

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Really interesting. Can you tell me why? Benefits of keeping tracks around that area? When recording though (guitar or vox) do u record hot or still have peaks at -6?

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RE: Drum levels average when mixing - Dec.-6th-2009 6:47:03

Whitten

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I can't comment about the -6db, but just to add in the old days of discrete mixing desks and analog tape, people started to record hot because it had a certain sound, usually pretty good.
Recording hot in the digital world often sounds pretty bad, well too hot anyway.

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RE: Drum levels average when mixing - Dec.-6th-2009 8:09:12

Platinum Samples

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6dB is one bit.. when we started recording digitally, we only had 16 bits and we tried to record as close to 0 dBfs as possible to use all those bits... with 24 bit, we don't mind only using 23 bits... We also used to mainly mix using large format analog consoles.. so the summing was being done in the analog domain with around 22dB of headroom (above 0VU) on your average Neve console... Now most mixes are being done inside the box where we need headroom for the plug ins to have some breathing room... so -6 dBfs is a good level IMO.

Rail

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RE: Drum levels average when mixing - Dec.-6th-2009 8:16:16

keano

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quote:

Now most mixes are being done inside the box where we need headroom for the plug ins to have some breathing room... so -6 dBfs is a good level IMO.

Do you mean when recording in have peaks hit -6 or have average mix levels at around -6db?

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RE: Drum levels average when mixing - Dec.-6th-2009 8:18:46

Platinum Samples

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When tracking - record so your levels hit -6dBfs (decibels full scale)... when mixing it depends if you plan to have your mix mastered.. if you do, then leave the mastering engineer some headroom to work with... if not, then go for -.2dBfs

Rail

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RE: Drum levels average when mixing - Dec.-6th-2009 8:24:20

keano

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quote:

When tracking - record so your levels hit -6dBfs (decibels full scale)...

Ok I got that part. But does this also apply to mixing levels of tracks. so you got a vox track, guitars and bass etc. Should these stay around the -6db area also or hit higher?

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RE: Drum levels average when mixing - Dec.-6th-2009 8:30:26

Platinum Samples

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Unless I'm misunderstanding the question, that's what I answered in the second half of my previous post... when mixing the tracks to a stereo final mix, the level will depend on if you plan to have the track mastered, or if you're going to add an L2 type buss limiter while mixing... if you're planning to have the mix mastered later then don't mix higher than -3dBfs (conservatively) to leave the mastering engineer some headroom.. but if you're not going to have the mix mastered later then use up as much of the bits as you can... and mix to -.2dBfs

BTW - Here's a link for you: http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/15038/1372/

Rail

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RE: Drum levels average when mixing - Dec.-6th-2009 8:38:32

keano

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Thanks!

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RE: Drum levels average when mixing - Dec.-7th-2009 18:46:40

tombuur

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I too just became aware of this recently, having until then also recorded as hot as I could without any overs. There are even people who recommend peaking at -12 dBfs og -18 dBfs.

But trying to understand this, can anyone explain to me why 1 bit is 6dB? I would have thought it should be 3 dB which corresponds to 2 times increase in loudness, or perhaps even less. I think 6 dB sounds like a lot for a single bit.

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RE: Drum levels average when mixing - Dec.-7th-2009 19:16:09

Platinum Samples

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Some links for you:

http://hbfs.wordpress.com/2008/12/09/deriving-the-1-bit-6-db-rule-of-thumb/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_bit_depth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal-to-noise_ratio

-18dBfs is the most common alignment for 0VU which would be an average RMS level, not a peak level.

Cheers,

Rail

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RE: Drum levels average when mixing - Dec.-7th-2009 19:23:11

keano

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I record in 32bit which is difficult to get any overs. I usually have peaks hitting -3db max. Would I be betterof at peaks hitting -6db even at 32bit?

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RE: Drum levels average when mixing - Dec.-7th-2009 19:31:14

Platinum Samples

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At 32 bit you do have additional headroom... this is why Pro Tools LE doesn't distort as easily as Pro Tools HD... It all depends on how many tracks you'll be mixing together and the tools you're using (and abusing).... I would still be conservative though since you don't know how those plugins you're using are coded... and at some point you're going to reduce the bit resolution.

Here's a link: http://emusician.com/tutorials/max_headroom/

Cheers,

Rail

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RE: Drum levels average when mixing - Dec.-7th-2009 23:13:23

keano

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Great article. Looks I am going to be tracking in at -6db for now on. Confused on 2 things though in the article. He saus:

quote:

Use master faders in your sessions. When a master-fader meter clips, simply lower the fader until the clipping stops.

Doesn't he mean the stereo buss?

BTW stereo buss should never be lowered right? Should be left at zero so we can judge exactly where its peaking at?

Noobie question but...

quote:

If a track-level fader is inconveniently high or low, insert a gain plug-in to adjust the level.

I don't understand this. So if your fader is riding high and your still not getting enough volume use a gain plugin? I believe Cubase has a trim on each track would this be the same thing?

Post #: 15