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Hi Hat and positional sensing
July 9, 2008
6:52 pm CEST
deadboy
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 Just got my copy of Superior 2, which I use as a VST in Cubase SX. Any chance anyone could post a Keymap? I'm using a Roland TD12 to trigger Superior Drummer 2.0, but am struggling to get the Roland VH-11 hi hat to trigger more than one sound when I strike it. The pedal up/down sound works, but when I strike the hi hat, it just triggers whatever articulation I last imputed through the "learn" function. I also wonder if it's posible to get more than "centre" and "rimshot" snare to be triggered concurrently. The Roland snare obviously senses different postions when struck, but can it relay that info? This is possibly a question for Roland, but if anyone can help, it would be greatly appreciated

July 9, 2008
7:04 pm CEST
Rogue
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... you must assign ALL the notes sent by your hihat trigger to HatsTrig to get the CC data processed properly. Well it's a bit more complicated than that to get the tip and edge to trigger different samples.

Anyway I've uploaded the old Edrum Guide pertaining to Superior 1 in the Free Download again... screenshots look different but with a bit of application you should be able to translate to S2 so you don't have to wait for us to finish the new guide (which is in the work).

No info yet on snare positional sensing but I'm sure of our in-house edrum gurus will be glad to fill you in.

July 9, 2008
8:38 pm CEST
Damian Blunt
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ORIGINAL: deadboy

 I also wonder if it's posible to get more than "centre" and "rimshot" snare to be triggered concurrently. The Roland snare obviously senses different postions when struck, but can it relay that info? This is possibly a question for Roland, but if anyone can help, it would be greatly appreciated

 
Go to the instrument pane (bottom right corner) > select 'snare' from the instrument dropdown > select 'snareTrig' from the articulation dropdown > press the 'learn' button > hit your snare! > the note is now assigned > select 'snareCtrl' from the articulation  dropdown menu > click in the 'key' box and type CC16......you should now be able to trigger snare edge and snare centre depending on position!
 

July 9, 2008
8:42 pm CEST
Rogue
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the SnareCtrl is already assigned by default to CC16... I'm no rookie mate you know that ;-)

... it's worth checking that's what the module sends however if you have anything else but a Roland as MIDI source. Note also that tension of the mesh is critical so if results are less than perfect check there first as there is little else that can go wrong.

July 9, 2008
10:29 pm CEST
deadboy
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Thanks Rogue and thanks grandaddy! I've got the snare triggering a centre hit, a rimshot and an edge or "outer snare" sound, and I've got the hi hat playing variations of openess, including a tight bell sound. I think I'm gonna love Superior 2. Thanks again for your time and your advice.

July 10, 2008
8:21 am CEST
jontor
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Hi
 
Thanks for this info about hihat configuration Rogue! So its just those three valeues (Closed Pedal, HatsTrig and HatsCtrl) i have to set with midi learn to get smooth hihat controll? In the list to choose from there is like 20 different positions,open 1,open 2,seq hard and so on, so that made me conufused..=)

July 10, 2008
1:16 pm CEST
Bassmeister
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The hi-hat response in S2.0 is notably worse with my Yamaha DTXpress than in DFHS. I am getting very unnatural chopping-off of samples when working the pedal that never happened in DFHS. The Yamaha outputs a single midi note when striking the pad together with CC04 data from the pedal.
The CC04 data variation is not smooth between 0-127, but rather 4-5 unevenly-stepped discrete values.
How does S2.0 interpret the CC04 data? If I evened out the steps using a midi transformer in Cubase might that help?

July 10, 2008
1:22 pm CEST
Rogue
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are you sure you have assigned ALL notes to HatsTrig? To be sure you don't get any parasitic articulations that may interfere with the transmuting you should also unassign all OpenX as there is little reason for S2 to fare worse than Superior 1.

July 10, 2008
1:25 pm CEST
Rogue
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... according to my database there are 2 distinct notes sent by the module, at least for the dtXpress III, so make sure you assign (manually typing) the following values:

HatsTrig 42
HatsTipTrig 93

let me know if that improves.

July 10, 2008
6:54 pm CEST
rizlaboy
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I am getting very unnatural chopping-off of samples when working the pedal...

I too am getting this problem with my Roland TD-3.
The transmitted TD-3 midi data is as follows:

Pedal hat=G#1

Closed hi-hat (bow) = F#1
Open Hi-Hat (bow) = A#1

Open Hi-Hat (Edge) = A#-1
Closed Hi-Hat (Edge) = D0

Hats foot controller = cc4

How should these notes be mapped to the various S 2.0 articulations for the hi-hats to achieve a smoother, more realistic response?

EDIT:
OK, i think I've got it. I've mapped all the "hits" (apart from pedal hat) to hatsTrig and that seems to work.
I think the problems I'm experiencing are to do with the calibration of the Roland FD-8 foot controller. It's tough to get a "lightly opened" sound.
Time to spend some more cash I think!

Intel i7 920 CPU|Asus P6T Deluxe MB|6GB OCZ DDR3 1333MHz| 2x1TB WD Caviar HDs|Edirol UA-1000 audio interface|Roland TD-3 Kit with 3x CY-8 cymbals|DFHS|Superior Drummer 2.0|NY Legacy SDX|Metal Foundry SDX
July 10, 2008
8:00 pm CEST
Rogue
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bow => HatsTigTrig
edge => HatsTrig

... as mentioned in the Guide I refer to in this very thread :-)

July 10, 2008
11:21 pm CEST
Bassmeister
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Hi Rogue,
thanks for the tips, but I still am getting poor HH response compared to DFHS.

Here's what I did in S2:

1. I selected each hi-hat articulation in turn and clicked remove (sometimes more than once to clear the Key field), though I left hatsCtrl as CC4.
2. Selected "Closed Pedal" - learn - stomped on the HH pedal.
3. Selected "hatsTrig" - learn - hit HH pad
4. closed the HH pedal (still on "hatsTrig") - learn - hit HH pad

With a fresh install of DFHS I did steps 2, 3 and 4 (I wasn't sure how you cleared stuff..?)

I played through the kit/Superior 2 a few HiHat strikes while I worked the HH pedal. I recorded the midi, copied it and also played that through DFHS. The results are here:

http://jezstephenson.f2s.com/t.....HHTest.mp3

First is DFHS, second is Superior 2.0, exact same midi. As you can hear, DFHS is much better. Any ideas as to why this might be?

Many thanks,
Jez.

July 22, 2008
8:35 pm CEST
plink
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This is what mine sound like too... which is why I've been complaining the hi-hats still need work. If this isn't the norm for S2, please tell us how to fix this!  thks!

July 22, 2008
10:25 pm CEST
Joe
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ORIGINAL: Bassmeister
I played through the kit/Superior 2 a few HiHat strikes while I worked the HH pedal. I recorded the midi, copied it and also played that through DFHS. The results are here:

Others may have more specific replies as to the nature of this problem, but I haven't heard that type of response before, even when my HiHat was incorrectly mapped.  To me it sounds almost like an audio issue more than a mapping issue .. like the transmutations have a silent spot between them.  What are your system specs?  (please state them in your forum profile).

July 22, 2008
11:32 pm CEST
John
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Hi,

as Joe writes, that is NOT how it is supposed to sound.
The only time I've heard something similar is when there is something wrong in the mapping, like triggering one or several articulations instead of HatsTrig and then moving the modwheel or HH controller, alternatively sending conflicting CC data; like using a HH controller to open while at the same time a keyboard is sending a closed CC value.
I had a keyboard once that caused me a lot of trouble since the mod and pitch wheels were broken so they constantly sent small changes in pitch and mod.

Best Regards,
John

July 23, 2008
2:09 am CEST
Scott
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First is DFHS, second is Superior 2.0, exact same midi. As you can hear, DFHS is much better. Any ideas as to why this might be?

They both sound quite wrong to me. The DFHS is just as bad...not as loud but just as choppy. Almost sounds like a hi hat epedal bouncing while the hihat is being played. It does sound like some weird cc data thing.

July 23, 2008
3:13 pm CEST
Bassmeister
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Just to be clear, I am bouncing the pedal during the HH strikes to illustrate the problem clearly. I did get better results by limiting the max value of cc4 to 120 to avoid getting the 'tight' articulations (mentioned in another thread), but it's still not quite right.
I'd be highly surprised if it was PC hardware-related given the performance of my system with everything else (updated in profile), though I do accept the DTXpress pedal might suck. Even so, DFHS hats still sound better at the moment.

August 26, 2008
2:59 pm CEST
Bassmeister
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The 2.0.1 update seems to have improved things a lot. I haven't tried the midi sequence again, but based on some general playing last night I didn't notice any of the abrupt 'cutting-off' of samples.

August 27, 2008
1:18 am CEST
Bassmeister
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Here's the proof:

DFHS followed by Superior 2.0:

http://jezstephenson.f2s.com/t.....HHTest.mp3

DFHS followed by Superior 2.0.1

http://jezstephenson.f2s.com/t.....HTest2.mp3

So, nothing to do with my edrums then!

Thanks for fixing guys.

March 13, 2014
2:32 am CEST
juan.barake
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Hi i was wondering if any one can help me with my hi hat: I am trying to set up a 2 trigger (roland cy-8) hi hat with my dm10 module. i used to use a one trigger hi hat witch worked well. Now what i did is that i connected the cy 8 to a to a 2 trigger input and i try to set it this way but it just does not work: " 1. Load toontrack solo and select your drumkit. 2. Right click the HiHat to select it. 3. In the "Instrument" Pane (lower right hand corner), go through each Articulation one-by-one and press "remove" to completely clear out all default assignments. (most articulations have multiple assignments, so clear them all out. Doing this step ensures that there are no unanticipated HiHat events) 4. Play the pedal and verify that Superior 2.0 triggers absolutely no sounds. 5. Mapping the pedal controller: Choose the "hatsCtrl"' articulation. Type 'CC4' in the Key field and press enter. 6. Mapping the Open edge zone: Choose the "hatsTrig" articulation. Leave the HiHat pedal open completely. Press "Learn". Strike the edge of the HiHat with stick. Should result in a mapped Key of ''D0". (or if you are viewing MIDI Notes as Numbers: 26) 7. Mapping the Open bow zone: Choose the "hatsTipTrig" articulation. Leave the HiHat pedal open completely. Press "Learn". Strike the bow of the HiHat with stick. Should result in a mapped Key of "A#1". (or if you are viewing MIDI Notes as Numbers: 46) 8. Mapping the Closed edge zone: Choose the "hatsTrig" articulation. Step on the HiHat pedal to close it (important: do that before you Press "Learn"). Press "Learn". Strike the edge of the HiHat with stick. Should result in an additional mapped key of "A#-1" to the "hatsTrig" articulation. (or if you are viewing MIDI Notes as Numbers: 22). You can view all mapped keys to an articulation by right clicking in the Key field. 9. Mapping the Closed bow zone: Choose the "hatsTipTrig" articulation. Step on the HiHat pedal to close it (important: do that before you Press "Learn"). Press "Learn". Strike the bow of the HiHat with stick. Should result in an additional mapped key of "F#1" to the "hatsTipTrig" field. (or if you are viewing MIDI Notes as Numbers: 42) 10. Mapping the Foot chick and Foot splash: Choose the "Closed Pedal" articulation. With the HiHat open, press "Learn". Step on the HiHat to close it. Should result in a mapped key of "G#1". (or if you are viewing MIDI Notes as Numbers: 44) If you like the way your HiHat is working, Save your MIDI Preset now so that you have a starting point to load just the HiHat (it requires the most tweaking, the rest of the kit is quick and easy to map with the "learn" feature)." Any ideas? PPLEASSSSS HELP!! THANKS!!

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